AVZ Discussion 2022

[JAG]

 

[Onthefm]

More lanbs to the slaughter. Poor dastards.

View attachment 26419

 

[BEISHA]

A lot of people here are praising Jules Alingete and the IGF but seem unhappy with Felix Tshisekedi. But they are missing the key link. It was Felix that appointed Alingete and gave him the funding to run the IGF properly. Before Tshisekedi the IGF only targeted low level players. Felix has given Alingete the mandate and support to now go after the big fish.

Is Felix Tshisekedi the perfect vessel for the essence of purity against corruption?

No

But he is much better than his predecessor. The thing that gives me the most comfort at the moment is the fact that the tenement hasn't been seized. The only hint of us losing any of PE13359 is because management trusted Mupande over the mining code. If Kabila were still the President of DRC then Zijin would already be mining Manono and we would have been incredibly lucky to get anything from them as payment imo

Ultimately Tshisekedi's role is to create the conditions for prosperity in the nation. He is not the one to prosecute the IGF's allegations. Some of you seem to think he is meant to be a manifestation of Judge Dredd that runs the law by himself. The seperation of powers between the executive and the judiciary is incredibly important in a functioning society imo

When was the last time you heard the Governor General or the Prime Minister of Australia calling for arrests or demanding that someone be sent to jail?

It doesn't happen. They always refer to the independence of the courts and will only comment after a case has been concluded. The IGF report about Cominiere was only officially released in full a month ago. It is inconceivable that Felix isn't aware of what has happened at this point.

I am extremely aware that the clock is ticking for us but we have to let the process play out before getting upset that it isn't happening exactly as we would like. We are in a much better position than a few months ago and I fully expect that trend to continue.

No one was more a supporter of FT than me in the early stages of his governance Carlos......

Soon after when he was " elected " by default in 2019, i was reading reports that he personally was rolling up his sleeves running the ruler over old contracts of chinese / mining coys under the previous regime of Kabila, making sure they were fair and equitable for DRC going forward, I was convinced then that he was a man of action supporting his mantra of quelling corruption, i assumed then that he would be taking a active role in running the ruler over future contracts too aka AVZ, which gave me alot of confidence that we were in safe hands....

Well , that thought process was put in the dumpster at the recent AGM, when Nigel mentioned that corrupt DRC ministers were "pulling the wool over FT eyes " regards to AVZ worthiness / credibility for a ML , hatched when COVID hit in 2020.

Now if FT had run the ruler over AVZ contract and kept abreast of the developments, then i believe he would have had the required intel to call out the bull shit and potentially AVZ wouldnt be in this current conundrum !

Establishing the IGF in July 2021 was far too late, that should of been done as soon as he came to governance, allowing them to probe all existing ministers regards to past corruption amongst many other criteria

The time for Felix to put his " big boy pants on " and be a REAL LION and make big statements to the corruptors and the international community was back in 2019/ early 2020............not late 2022 / 2023.....

Its encouraging to finally see the war drums favouring AVZ, but i fear the chinese actors and corrupt DRC officials see the finishing line being December 2023 where a new election will take place, with Kabila putting his hand up for another term of raping and pillaging of DRC finances in cohorts with his chinese buddies , if he is successful and AVZ are still in suspension, then we are stuffed !!

I am sorry , but up until recently, Felix has been all talk no action, a real disappointment and if he doesnt make some big statements soon, the DRC folk will realise that too ( if not already ) and will vote him out.

imo

 

[Carlos Danger]

If and when this current shitshow ends there will be a stream of takeover offers IMO. I want us to go mining but I can’t see us getting that far.

Yes this has always been my view; I always expected Chinese or others to make a move on AVZ and for them to come in quickly , after they waited for AVZ to take the risk and go through the hurdles in getting the ML; once ML was in hand then it was who‘s quickest off the picket fence.

I suspect Zijin and all other interest parties expected the same thing; however Zijin / CAMI and co have likely caused the other potential movers to climb back on to the fence whilst this shit is worked out ; however Zijin , affiliates & crook friend likely using this mess to stitch up AVZ.

Should AVZ manage to come out of this , I think Zijin are cooked and will get not a thing even with regard to offtakes ; I’m sure Nigel would tell them to jog on ; but I’d suspect that we’d have offers tabled pretty soon after ML stamped.

heard a couple of times in the past the number of $5bUS mentioned and being the figure that interest would only start to agitate at; since then more drillings has taken place with massive intercepts to firm up more Jorc tonnage and this to the south alone ; it’s unfortunate that we are going through this mess , other lithium plays would be loving it as they rush through into production , even happy to just knock out DSO whilst Dathcom/AVZ tries to shake of these dogs…

i somehow doubt AVZ are going to come out of this this totally intact .I.e. North and South ; 10% to government , ROFR accepted and taken up. I suspect higher percent at 15% to the government along with a few more frills ; ROFR % likely goes elsewhere ; hoping, as it should 13559 is granted to AVZ as a whole and the tailings fall within this granting. That or 80% of that and it’s red hot for TO advances ; north carved out and I think you have a few hmmm noises being made , as the north from that point would likely head into Chinese hands and those guys would just swamp infrastructure capacity leaving it difficult in the short / medium time for operators in carrier as they would likely have a grant of ML with a 10 page application passing through cami in record timing and boots on the ground before the rest

The question is how long do we fight for Nth CDL before we say F--k it and move forward with Roche Dure ? At some point we will have to compromise if this drags on . Obviously one of the tactics in play by our enemies . CDL still needs to be drilled out and a resource proven etc etc . Roche Dure done all that and ready for the build . It's not in the DRC's best interest for it to be held up longer once we get the ML . I'm still going with a TO . Most probably by the Chinese once they have stolen as much as they can . IMO

If the right offer comes along I think the board would be more than happy to sell. Especially after what we have been through. Management seem committed to mining but they all have enough shares now that they would be very well rewarded if AVZ is sold. For some of the older members of the board it is probably a more attractive option than slogging it out building a mine in rural Africa for the next few years.

At the end of the day money talks. If a potential buyer offered 0.01 per share every single shareholder would laugh in their face. If the same buyer offered 10.00 per share we would all bite their hand off. Everybody including the board has a price somewhere in the middle.

The key to getting the best offer is to progress the project. Zijin are trying everything to stop us from moving forward so they can pay as little as possible to acquire Manono. It is clearly part of their overall business strategy to use underhanded tactics. I don't blame them. Makes good business sense if you can get away with it.

The problem for Zijin is the fact they have been caught red handed in ripping off the DRC state in their actions with Cominiere. The 15% is worth $150m USD. Zijin only paid $33m USD. Out of that they only actually paid a deposit of $6.8m USD and none of that ended up in state coffers. No chance Felix let's Zijin anywhere near Manono imo

While the president may not interfere in ongoing criminal cases he can influence things behind the scenes. The big question now is which prosecutors are chosen to handle the next stages. The arrests of the CEO and technical director of Cominiere show that the facts support action being taken by the judiciary. It's much easier to take out the big pigs if you catch the little pigs first and make them squeal imo

 

[Carlos Danger]

No one was more a supporter of FT than me in the early stages of his governance Carlos......

Soon after when he was " elected " by default in 2019, i was reading reports that he personally was rolling up his sleeves running the ruler over old contracts of chinese / mining coys under the previous regime of Kabila, making sure they were fair and equitable for DRC going forward, I was convinced then that he was a man of action supporting his mantra of quelling corruption, i assumed then that he would be taking a active role in running the ruler over future contracts too aka AVZ, which gave me alot of confidence that we were in safe hands....

Well , that thought process was put in the dumpster at the recent AGM, when Nigel mentioned that corrupt DRC ministers were "pulling the wool over FT eyes " regards to AVZ worthiness / credibility for a ML , hatched when COVID hit in 2020.

Now if FT had run the ruler over AVZ contract and kept abreast of the developments, then i believe he would have had the required intel to call out the bull shit and potentially AVZ wouldnt be in this current conundrum !

Establishing the IGF in July 2021 was far too late, that should of been done as soon as he came to governance, allowing them to probe all existing ministers regards to past corruption amongst many other criteria

The time for Felix to put his " big boy pants on " and be a REAL LION and make big statements to the corruptors and the international community was back in 2019/ early 2020............not late 2022 / 2023.....

Its encouraging to finally see the war drums favouring AVZ, but i fear the chinese actors and corrupt DRC officials see the finishing line being December 2023 where a new election will take place, with Kabila putting his hand up for another term of raping and pillaging of DRC finances in cohorts with his chinese buddies , if he is successful and AVZ are still in suspension, then we are stuffed !!

I am sorry , but up until recently, Felix has been all talk no action, a real disappointment and if he doesnt make some big statements soon, the DRC folk will realise that too ( if not already ) and will vote him out.

imo

We received approval for the favourable opinions and were then given a Ministerial Decree for the mining licence in April 2022. AVZ management were initially happy enough with that to trade for 3 days after announcing it to market. The only reason the contract has stalled is because management agreed to partition the northern part of the tenement and Mupande took advantage of their mistake. Not sure what else you expected Felix Tshisekedi to do up until that stage.

The alleged crimes by Cominiere, Zijin and the MoP didn't occur until Q3 2021. The law has to be reactive not proactive. Real life isn't Minority Report. All I'm saying is that if it wasn't for Felix supporting the IGF then the CEO and technical director of Cominiere wouldn't have been arrested and Jules Alingete wouldn't be publicly calling for action against Zijin and the MoP imo

 

[Xerof]

Slightly off topic, but for those who were at the first shitshow in Perth, was this guy named as a roadblock? I seem to recall reading it somewhere - perhaps JAG's censored list?

Fortunat Biselele.....hmmmm

anyway, my point is, IF it is/was him, he appears now to be undermining FT - dangerous game that. Is he being rooted out? figuratively speaking, of course


Unfortunat

Kunt

 

[JAG]

 

[John25]

Whats happened to Saturday nights on here we all going to AA meetings ….whats happened to this…The Mantle is getting awfully Dusty

 

[Hemicuda]

Whats happened to Saturday nights on here we all going to AA meetings ….whats happened to this…The Mantle is getting awfully Dusty
View attachment 26446

getting reel long in the tooth tuning in/cant be fucked?

 

[TDITD]

The upcoming elections are a PERFECT opportunity for Felix to showcase his fight against corruption, are we being held/coasted along to be used as the poster boy for Felix to remind the people of his fight on corruption.

Manono the DRCs newest jewel worth $$$ has been attacked by Zijin and corrupt players within government but, thanks to IGF and Felix we have caught and exposed them…..Adele & Mupande being publicly dealt with as too Cominiere ?

Alternatively this is wishful thinking, something is definitely happening. Will it be enough ?

 

[wombat74]

If the right offer comes along I think the board would be more than happy to sell. Especially after what we have been through. Management seem committed to mining but they all have enough shares now that they would be very well rewarded if AVZ is sold. For some of the older members of the board it is probably a more attractive option than slogging it out building a mine in rural Africa for the next few years.

At the end of the day money talks. If a potential buyer offered 0.01 per share every single shareholder would laugh in their face. If the same buyer offered 10.00 per share we would all bite their hand off. Everybody including the board has a price somewhere in the middle.

The key to getting the best offer is to progress the project. Zijin are trying everything to stop us from moving forward so they can pay as little as possible to acquire Manono. It is clearly part of their overall business strategy to use underhanded tactics. I don't blame them. Makes good business sense if you can get away with it.

The problem for Zijin is the fact they have been caught red handed in ripping off the DRC state in their actions with Cominiere. The 15% is worth $150m USD. Zijin only paid $33m USD. Out of that they only actually paid a deposit of $6.8m USD and none of that ended up in state coffers. No chance Felix let's Zijin anywhere near Manono imo

While the president may not interfere in ongoing criminal cases he can influence things behind the scenes. The big question now is which prosecutors are chosen to handle the next stages. The arrests of the CEO and technical director of Cominiere show that the facts support action being taken by the judiciary. It's much easier to take out the big pigs if you catch the little pigs first and make them squeal imo

View attachment 26444

Is the ML available for Roche Dure if we accept ? Forget all the BS that's going on . Forget Nth CDL . Forget the 15% ROFR . At the very least do we have Roche Dure ? Because I'm getting mixed messages . On the one hand management tells us we've been sliced and diced and surface fees have only been issued for Roche Dure & Sth CDL and we are not accepting that . This obviously tells us ML available excluding our rights to Nth CDL . On the other hand I was told directly from head office that the ML is completely out of our control . Now how is it completely out of our control if they have told us the surface rights can be calculated for Roche Dure ? Does this not mean the ML is available if we accept the slice and dice ?

 

[Carlos Danger]

Is the ML available for Roche Dure if we accept ? Forget all the BS that's going on . Forget Nth CDL . Forget the 15% ROFR . At the very least do we have Roche Dure ? Because I'm getting mixed messages . On the one hand management tells us we've been sliced and diced and surface fees have only been issued for Roche Dure & Sth CDL and we are not accepting that . This obviously tells us ML available excluding our rights to Nth CDL . On the other hand I was told directly from head office that the ML is completely out of our control . Now how is it completely out of our control if they have told us the surface rights can be calculated for Roche Dure . Does this not mean the ML is available if we accept the slice and dice ?

Yeah there are definitely mixed messages about this. On one hand management are saying that we just need the surface rights calculated and we're good to go. Which would mean RD as PE and CDL as PR or possibly gone as they are 'not fussed about the northern section'.

On the other hand they are saying that they are fighting for the northern section against AJN. I personally can't see anything happening until this 'dispute' has been resolved or Mupande is removed as DG of CAMI.

From the AGM:

What happened after ML Decree, spurious yet we’re in suspension. What’s the main issue for ML – is it Dathomir, is Zijin ICC arbitration 15, dispute with exploration rights?

A: Lot of players in vogue here in country, lot of hatchet jobs being done – President had a bad view from being ill advised by detractors (e.g. we hadn’t done anything, didn’t have money experience, and were speculators). Detractors continuing, but slowly slowly we’re working to remove the blocks.

We knew Chinese would have a crack, but we did not expect parts of DRC government to be in on it?

A: Nor did we - “we thought it was gambit by Chinese groups to get project cheapest way. We weren’t aware it was also elements of the government complicit. We can’t go into it, but rest assured those people are being turned over within meetings with real information is being shared, and people put on the spot.

Collusion between all those 3 – namely Zijin, Jin Cheng, CAMI?

A: That would be astute thought

Issue that a portion of mines directorate said we hadn’t done the work on the northern tenement area, and shouldn’t get the north?

A: That’s not within the mining code. So 13359 should be retained in its entirety – however the northern area may need to come under a separate exploration tenement, even though that’s not the established process. – We know who’s behind this (e.g. DG CAMI)

What about AJN having a crack

A: “their premise is that we’ve returned the northern tenement to government. We haven’t. Draw a conclusion out of that”.

Interview NF mentioned once mentioned once decree issued 10 day period before Court could issue the licence. What happened?

A: This was a misunderstanding. As soon as your documentation was in order and issued, this talk of periods was regarding the ministerial decree. Other steps in way of ML – CAMI have held up the invoicing, illegally in our view.

 

[TDITD]

Is the ML available for Roche Dure if we accept ? Forget all the BS that's going on . Forget Nth CDL . Forget the 15% ROFR . At the very least do we have Roche Dure ? Because I'm getting mixed messages . On the one hand management tells us we've been sliced and diced and surface fees have only been issued for Roche Dure & Sth CDL and we are not accepting that . This obviously tells us ML available excluding our rights to Nth CDL . On the other hand I was told directly from head office that the ML is completely out of our control . Now how is it completely out of our control if they have told us the surface rights can be calculated for Roche Dure . Does this not mean the ML is available if we accept the slice and dice ?

Mate, we are getting mixed messages everywhere we care to look, hence fatigue setting in for most of us. AVZ No Pain, No Pain (Have we got this in a pic yet @JAG ?)

From what can be gleaned it does seem like its far easier for us to hand over half our strategically very important tenement to Mupande who has very likely already done a deal (received down payment) with Zijin, an then Mupande hands over our ML.

Apart from principle, corruption and a host of other reasons many of us have mentioned on how this would be a bad idea. I think the worst of these is that it would be suicide. They will move at light speed to progress 'upper cdl' to mining all the while obstructing us in every conceivable and unconceivable way, as we have already witnessed. Handing them half our tenement would be catastrophic imo.

This could be a poor plan c ? I'd rather sell before we do this as in my eyes we would be dead in the water.

In short do I believe if we give up half our tenement can we get the ML, yes
Do I think we should do it, why not take a gun to our heads an pull the trigger
Mixed messages, yep, not really fussed though as we know the score

End of the day though I know fuck all about fuck all, an even less about this shitshow

 

[Onthefm]

Yeah there are definitely mixed messages about this. On one hand management are saying that we just need the surface rights calculated and we're good to go. Which would mean RD as PE and CDL as PR or possibly gone as they are 'not fussed about the northern section'.

On the other hand they are saying that they are fighting for the northern section against AJN. I personally can't see anything happening until this 'dispute' has been resolved or Mupande is removed as DG of CAMI.

View attachment 26455

From the AGM:

What happened after ML Decree, spurious yet we’re in suspension. What’s the main issue for ML – is it Dathomir, is Zijin ICC arbitration 15, dispute with exploration rights?

A: Lot of players in vogue here in country, lot of hatchet jobs being done – President had a bad view from being ill advised by detractors (e.g. we hadn’t done anything, didn’t have money experience, and were speculators). Detractors continuing, but slowly slowly we’re working to remove the blocks.

We knew Chinese would have a crack, but we did not expect parts of DRC government to be in on it?

A: Nor did we - “we thought it was gambit by Chinese groups to get project cheapest way. We weren’t aware it was also elements of the government complicit. We can’t go into it, but rest assured those people are being turned over within meetings with real information is being shared, and people put on the spot.

Collusion between all those 3 – namely Zijin, Jin Cheng, CAMI?

A: That would be astute thought

Issue that a portion of mines directorate said we hadn’t done the work on the northern tenement area, and shouldn’t get the north?

A: That’s not within the mining code. So 13359 should be retained in its entirety – however the northern area may need to come under a separate exploration tenement, even though that’s not the established process. – We know who’s behind this (e.g. DG CAMI)

What about AJN having a crack

A: “their premise is that we’ve returned the northern tenement to government. We haven’t. Draw a conclusion out of that”.

Interview NF mentioned once mentioned once decree issued 10 day period before Court could issue the licence. What happened?

A: This was a misunderstanding. As soon as your documentation was in order and issued, this talk of periods was regarding the ministerial decree. Other steps in way of ML – CAMI have held up the invoicing, illegally in our view.

Great summary mate but there's a shit load more untruths sprouted by these pricks( cr taken up by predominantly us , euro and Australian investors) was a doozy. Just watch that come back and bite us on the ass in the not to distant future. Very ordinary imo.

 

[wombat74]

Mate, we are getting mixed messages everywhere we care to look, hence fatigue setting in for most of us. AVZ No Pain, No Pain (Have we got this in a pic yet @JAG ?)

From what can be gleaned it does seem like its far easier for us to hand over half our strategically very important tenement to Mupande who has very likely already done a deal (received down payment) with Zijin, an then Mupande hands over our ML.

Apart from principle, corruption and a host of other reasons many of us have mentioned on how this would be a bad idea. I think the worst of these is that it would be suicide. They will move at light speed to progress 'upper cdl' to mining all the while obstructing us in every conceivable and unconceivable way, as we have already witnessed. Handing them half our tenement would be catastrophic imo.

This could be a poor plan c ? I'd rather sell before we do this as in my eyes we would be dead in the water.

In short do I believe if we give up half our tenement can we get the ML, yes
Do I think we should do it, why not take a gun to our heads an pull the trigger

End of the day though I know fuck all about fuck all, an even less about this shitshow

Understand your reasoning . However Roche Dure alone will be 1 Billion + tonne high grade . Surely we will be a TO target . I have never thought for 1 second we will mine .Also CDL is yet to be drilled and defined plus all the other steps which will take many months . The President will want Roche Dure up and running . I'm coming from somewhat of a selfish stand point . I'm only interested in the share price and having access to my money .

 

[Bin59]

Unbelievable that they would allow MoP anywhere near this recovery plan.

 

[wombat74]

Unbelievable that they would allow MoP anywhere near this recovery plan.

Some people have obviously been getting their jollies over the past months lying to us about the fate of the the Green Grub among other things . The so called intel have just been winding us up . It's all BS . Poor old Fox lead up the garden path and back again . Punters desperate for news of any positive progress willing to believe anything these sadistic pricks tell them .

 

[Flight996]

Understand your reasoning . However Roche Dure alone will be 1 Billion + tonne high grade . Surely we will be a TO target . I have never thought for 1 second we will mine .Also CDL is yet to be drilled and defined plus all the other steps which will take many months . The President will want Roche Dure up and running . I'm coming from somewhat of a selfish stand point . I'm only interested in the share price and having access to my money .

Hi Wombat

While Carriere de l’Este's (CDL) resource base is yet to be defined, it was systematically drilled in 2021 (see below) Source: AVZ announcement to ASX August 2021.

Based on the information available, it's likely to rival RD in size and grade. For this reason alone I would prefer to not give away any part of AVZ's assets, including CDL, which is our asset and worth fighting for.

In the meantime will just sit patiently and wait for the results of the International Court of Cassation (ICC), which is expected to consider AVZ's claims in April 2023. I know some individuals would prefer earlier access to their funds, but these court cases may be our best hope of a final resulution to this shitfight. In the absence of a final and legal ICC decision on title, this mess will remain forever unresolved, and AVZ will be perennially under attack.

Cheers
F

 

[Onthefm]

Hi Wombat

While Carriere de l’Este's (CDL) resource base is yet to be defined, it was systematically drilled in 2021 (see below) Source: AVZ announcement to ASX August 2021.

Based on the information available, it's likely to rival RD in size and grade. For this reason alone I would prefer to not give away any part of AVZ's assets, including CDL, which is our asset and worth fighting for.

In the meantime will just sit patiently and wait for the results of the International Court of Cassation (ICC), which is expected to consider AVZ's claims in April 2023. I know some individuals would prefer earlier access to their funds, but these court cases may be our best hope of a final resulution to this shitfight. In the absence of a final and legal ICC decision on title, this mess will remain forever unresolved, and AVZ will be perennially under attack.

View attachment 26469
Cheers
F

That being the case why the fuck didn't management go straight to the icc 12 months ago. Obviously another dropped ball. Always and I mean Always behind this mob.

 

[wombat74]

Hi Wombat

While Carriere de l’Este's (CDL) resource base is yet to be defined, it was systematically drilled in 2021 (see below) Source: AVZ announcement to ASX August 2021.

Based on the information available, it's likely to rival RD in size and grade. For this reason alone I would prefer to not give away any part of AVZ's assets, including CDL, which is our asset and worth fighting for.

In the meantime will just sit patiently and wait for the results of the International Court of Cassation (ICC), which is expected to consider AVZ's claims in April 2023. I know some individuals would prefer earlier access to their funds, but these court cases may be our best hope of a final resulution to this shitfight. In the absence of a final and legal ICC decision on title, this mess will remain forever unresolved, and AVZ will be perennially under attack.

View attachment 26469
Cheers
F

Thanks Flight . How long will the ICC process take ? Can it be appealed ? Also head office told me with regards to the ICC action ,and I quote : "This action does not impact the award of ML nor our ability to progress funding and development of the project."