AVZ Discussion 2022

[TDITD]

Yep totally agree with that but the fact that Dave Evans, who is across the intricate language of legal-ese has to read them 2 or 3 times to fully
understand them says a lot.

Regardless, I wasn't specifically calling out this announcement as I do understand these announcements need to be the way they are. I was merely using it as a catalyst to highlight a bugbear and indeed a chronic issue which has become clear weakness now that we have competitors.

I have honestly found MMGA advertising misleading, lacking substance and basically insulting.

As investors involved on socials we know they are crooks, we can't find one person that doesn't think that. I have a mate that works fulltime + OT has kids, has a 3d printing business he is working on, has other hobbies and very little spare time but called me up to tell me MMGA are crooks. (Cavet, that everyone should be informed as it's their investment, it is not difficult to ascertain MMGAs agenda after allowing for a measly hour online researching one night per week)

Certainly though, I definitely agree it would have been quite beneficial to have a slick PR/Advertising team on the job with AVZ. I don't think anyone could put up a reasonable argument against that tbh, maybe one for Friday fight night . This would have served those on twitter and other socials greatly, aswell as to alleviate the mud throwing and assist in applying pressure.

 

[Jazz]

So for so many shareholders , like myself , we read all posts and can be a little confused but does anybody think this will be resolved at the ATM so we can start trading to release all or some of our investment or do we wait til mid next year as I am thinking , would like to hear other holders thinking ?

Assuming you mean the AGM, I think no. It is a habit most of us have been guilty of to expect news before an upcoming event, being an AGM, roadshow, or conference. I would caution everyone against getting their hopes up as the date of any of these events has no significance on the many hurdles AVZ is facing. Also, don’t be too eager to start trading, trading now would see us at 10c or worse. Just my opinion.

 

[Thaz]

The problem is mate, AVZ have a communication problem.
They are shit at it. And I'm not talking about the obvious "lack of" problem.

Let me elaborate.

If you look at MMGA and how they have presented their argument they have done a very good at coming across as professional and well reasoned despite what we informed shareholders know about them. Their website is slick. Their mail-outs are on brand and every bit of comms is cohesive and instantly recognisable when you see it. There is a personality there. (even though we know the personalities behind the media are nefarious ).

Additionally, the information presented is easily digested in small packages within the website or mail-outs. It's "snackable" as we say, so you don't get lost in any verbose, boring, mumbo jumbo. Very easy to scan and get the gist. Plus they do it all without personal attack or being abusive or swearing.

Now let's hop over to how AVZ do it, which is basically me copying and pasting from the above paragraph. Verbose, boring, mumbo jumbo. Basically a big TLDR every time. And yes, yes ,yes, I do get it. They need to do things this way as a requirement to shareholders but they could've also added to these releases and take a leaf out of the most basic advertising principles manual which is have a personality and keep it simple because most people don't have the bandwidth to do their own shit in the daily let alone digest reams of verbose, boring, mumbo jumbo. Especially when it looks like it has the personality of a dial tone.

I've offered to help Nigel before, via proxy and never heard a sniff back so I don't know how to solve it but what I do know is if I was an uninitiated Shareholder, who's not across the entire saga and I was trying to make sense of why I can't access my money and I get the choice of "apparently" clear, concise, visually appealing solution on a way forward > up against multi-paged A4 announcements which seems too much to understand, with no brand or personality and a bunch of potty mouthed, ALL CAPS twitter warriors seemingly aligning with them... I know which side I identify with.

AVZ really need to get with the program on comms. They've had two years to work on this and still to this day all we get is a bloody green chameleon as an offering of top notch graphics.

*as a side note I think I've worked out who is behind MMGA. Take a look at Tantalex website. Notice any similarities?

Love the work that you do.

But i'd wager, that there are a few reasons why AVZ announcements come across as 'mundane' / littered with 'legal-ese'.

1. Their lawyers would no doubt need to vet the contents being released to / on the ASX. As we all know - lawyers charge money to write shit, and then charge money to interpret that shit.
2. AVZ's spending/money is probably quite tight - they don't have the resources to come across as 'slick' as MMGA.
3. MMGA, id' wager, has the backing of Cong/Zijin/whoeever is supplying the snacks. And they do not have the overheads to worry about.

That said, AVZ can improve their messaging and the frequency of this. But I take what i can get.

 

[wombat74]

Sounds like Cong won't drop the criminal complaint and admit the creation of the share certificates were valid
View attachment 48598

Thought so . I think Cominiere/Dathomir/ Zijin are all in lock step now . They all have the same goal . Wipe out AVZ . Time for a Cap raise to show them we are not going away . Really what's another couple 100 mil shares to stick it to these c--ts ?

 

[Remark]

Some people are never happy. AVZ releases too little info regarding the upcoming court cases & they are criticised by all and sundry (admittedly they have been rather slack with keeping SH's informed).

Now they release a statement full of information regarding the court cases & problems faced by the company and they're accused of releasing to much information?

"multi-paged A4 announcements which seems too much to understand"

It's not that complicated.

 

[BRICK]

Mate It's clear to me now, that there is no such thing. BUt I'll take the noms regardless.

Thanks!

Add that question to the list for the AGM:

"do you require an expereinced team member to assist in your public relations and media managment?"

Only problem is, its probably only going to be funded for about another 6 month

 

[Spikerama]

Some people are never happy. AVZ releases too little info regarding the upcoming court cases & they are criticised by all and sundry (admittedly they have been rather slack with keeping SH's informed).

Now they release a statement full of information regarding the court cases & problems faced by the company and they're accused of releasing to much information?

"multi-paged A4 announcements which seems too much to understand"

It's not that complicated.

You are taking my words out of context now.

Maybe I have a comms problem and didn't make myself clear or maybe people didn't read my 4 paragraphs in detail.

The quote you refer to was not about us in here or hawk-eyed investors who examine every word in detail like MoneyBags or basically most of us in here. It was in reference to those disengaged shareholders who probably never vote and just chuck the AGM resolutions notice in the bin. Only this year something is different because they want their money and now have with shiny new offerings and professionally produced comms instead of same old stuff appearing the the letter box.

It's not about the ASX announcements. It's about the brand. Or lack there of.

I never claimed AVZ are releasing too much information.

Details are important.

 

[David holland]

Really sounds like we are getting close to a resolution now. The ICC emergency injunctions are helping out a lot here and cannot be understated.

If the MoU still isn't sorted by the end of January and the ICC rules in favour of us against Zijin and then again against Dathomir, the DRC government really have no reason or excuse to continue this shitshow. They will have no case whatsoever against us at ICSID and will completely fuckup everything for themselves.

The recent announcements have been great at countering this MMGA falsehood. Keep them coming - next thing i want to see is this evidence of all the detractors being in cahoots!

Goes to show how well the BoD have managed this over the years, just been heartache for us SH's being held in the dark, but now seeing all of the info come to light, it was imperrative that they held it in.

Edit - would love to start seeing some more public backing from either our Aus embassy or some form of Aus government, even perhaps the US or someone to take a stand now and publicly discuss this issue because all of the dirty laundry is now being aired.

I have recieved my voting slip, what are we voting to get this company back on track, I haven't been up to date with proceedings

 

[Samus]

Did I miss who's responsible for issuing the share certificates the DRC?

Cami JFMK?

FMD...

 

[Remark]

Sorry I quoted you out of context...

"Now let's hop over to how AVZ do it, which is basically me copying and pasting from the above paragraph. Verbose, boring, mumbo jumbo. Basically a big TLDR every time. And yes, yes ,yes, I do get it. They need to do things this way as a requirement to shareholders but they could've also added to these releases and take a leaf out of the most basic advertising principles manual which is have a personality and keep it simple because most people don't have the bandwidth to do their own shit in the daily let alone digest reams of verbose, boring, mumbo jumbo. Especially when it looks like it has the personality of a dial tone.

I've offered to help Nigel before, via proxy and never heard a sniff back so I don't know how to solve it but what I do know is if I was an uninitiated Shareholder, who's not across the entire saga and I was trying to make sense of why I can't access my money and I get the choice of "apparently" clear, concise, visually appealing solution on a way forward > up against multi-paged A4 announcements which seems too much to understand, with no brand or personality and a bunch of potty mouthed, ALL CAPS twitter warriors seemingly aligning with them... I know which side I identify with."

Another point apart from the obvious - should Nigel be accepting advertising / marketing advice from a random person on Social Media? I sincerely hope not.

Do you think that a simple "advertising campaign" (visually appealing solution as you put it) could explain the complex matters that the BOD are dealing with? Sometimes simplicity isn't the answer.

"If you look at MMGA and how they have presented their argument they have done a very good at coming across as professional and well reasoned despite what we informed shareholders know about them. Their website is slick."

I've never thought that the MMGA website was at all slick. It looked like a cheaply put together off the shelf type setup. They even cloned Donald Trump's catchphrase. Not impressive at all.

Differences in opinion are what makes the world interesting.

 

[Hudnut]

Thanks for posting that TC. Now that AVZ has provided that additional information here you can bet there will still be those shareholders who won’t even read it and will be whining again in a week or month or whenever that AVZ hasn’t communicated with shareholders.

AVZ has provided so much information to shareholders since we went into suspension that anyone who actually read it all should understood what and why information has and hasn’t been disclosed previously

As far as everyone sending the MMGA email with their proposal to spam or the bin, I opened it up, read it and made dot points of all the lies and misinformation in it to use against them

I sure would have liked to have known about the Dathomir case, the 50 million dollar fine, and Graeme Johnston's 3 year prison sentencing from AVZ a hell of a lot earlier. Prior to suspension, and without being forced to disclose by circumstances.

I'd also like some comms regarding the work supposedly being done by others at the power plant.

 

[Samus]

I sure would have liked to have known about the Dathomir case, the 50 million dollar fine, and Graeme Johnston's 3 year prison sentencing from AVZ a hell of a lot earlier. Prior to suspension, and without being forced to disclose by circumstances.

I'd also like some comms regarding the power plant.

I'm wondering at what point AVZ management actually knew, sounds like this potentially all happened without their knowledge during covid times.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Did I miss who's responsible for issuing the share certificates the DRC?

Cami JFMK?

FMD...

Papalas Musagi Wabulasa

He is a clerk at the RCCM (DRC company register) office who created the certificate at Dathcom's (Represented by Graeme Johnston) request using the share transfer instruments held by AVZ's DRC lawyers that were no doubt done when the SPA's were created

He got 12 months hard time in the original judgement but that was overturned on appeal as the appeal judge found that his conviction was not established 'in fact as in law'

 

[Rediah]

Hmmmm from Earth they say…..

Nice try, Aliens !!!!!

 

[wombat74]

I sure would have liked to have known about the Dathomir case, the 50 million dollar fine, and Graeme Johnston's 3 year prison sentencing from AVZ a hell of a lot earlier. Prior to suspension, and without being forced to disclose by circumstances.

I'd also like some comms regarding the work supposedly being done by others at the power plant.

I'm surprised it hadn't leaked somehow . Even without AVZ informing SH .

 

[Hudnut]

I'm wondering at what point AVZ management actually knew, sounds like this potentially all happened without their knowledge during covid times.

I can't see how a DRC court would expect to collect a multi million dollar fine from AVZ without telling them about it.

 

[wombat74]

I'm wondering at what point AVZ management actually knew, sounds like this potentially all happened without their knowledge during covid times.

My thoughts as well . How does that info not leak one way or the other ?

 

[Samus]

I can't see how a DRC court would expect to collect a multi million dollar fine from AVZ without telling them about it.

Announcement says:

 

[Carlos Danger]

I'm wondering at what point AVZ management actually knew, sounds like this potentially all happened without their knowledge during covid times.

My thoughts as well . How does that info not leak one way or the other ?

AVZ management knew immediately. Appeal was lodged 7 days after original judgement.

 

[Hudnut]

Announcement says:

View attachment 48611

Yes, that's the hearing itself and handing down a judgement. I get that.
Once that's been done, you need to tell the person you've tried in absentia that you reckon they owe you money if you want to collect it, yes?