AVZ Discussion 2022

According to the ASX Corporate Governance Principles and Recommendations, 4th Ed, 2019:

Board members are required to instil a culture of acting lawfully, ethically and responsibly...

For this reason alone, Zijin will not be invited to sit on the AVZ board, regardless of the number of shares it directly or indirectly holds.

Cheers
F

Sorry Flight I know you are serious, but…. “Board members are required to instil a culture of acting lawfully, ethically and responsibly...

I’ve been looking into Corporate Governance Principles for more than five years and “ethically and responsibly” would be a first for most of the twenty five odd companies I have owned

I used to comment on those Principles back before I was permanently suspended from the crapper…. “Oppenness” was another principle
 
  • Like
  • Fire
  • Love
Reactions: 8 users

Xerof

Flaming 1967
I mentioned this over at the Crapper, but I'm of the opinion that if AVZ or shareholders get a whiff that the Chinese are trying to obtain a board seat or any other dodgy tactics with their greater than 10%, everyone would be banging down FIRB's door to investigate and get them back under the threshold. I don't think it matters how they do it, from where they do it or what entity they use if domestically registered, bottom line is that a foreign entity will have greater than 10% in an Australian listed entity. Just have to prove to FIRB and connect the dots to establish the links. And when talking about critical minerals like Lithium, Australian Govt would act like they did previously, possibly with USA whispering in their ear.

Also, if the above is unsuccessful and shareholders find out the one of the Board Directors is a Zijin (or other chinese entity) rep that has come on through dodgy means, how many shareholders would try and gather 5% to call an EGM to remove this Director via 249D. I'm sure 75% of votes would be obtained to oust this person. Maybe this way just replaces one Chinese Director with another, but do it a few times and they will get the picture. All imo.
To me, it's more than a whiff, it's a stinking great cloud of vaporised shit stench, which emanates all my passages.

it's 4.30 here so I am off to the old school hall down the road, to swap a library book (not), meet our residents for the first time in 2023, drink a couple of bottles of your bloody Aussie wine, steal someones nibbles and return before dark to watch some cricket in Pakistan

HAGW
 
  • Like
  • Haha
  • Fire
Reactions: 11 users

Flight996

Regular
Sorry Flight I know you are serious, but…. “Board members are required to instil a culture of acting lawfully, ethically and responsibly...

I’ve been looking into Corporate Governance Principles for more than five years and “ethically and responsibly” would be a first for most of the twenty five odd companies I have owned

I used to comment on those Principles back before I was permanently suspended from the crapper…. “Oppenness” was another principle
Yup, it is hard to keep a straight face when looking back at the self-serving behaviour of certain past and present boards. Maybe it's just an ASX serving suggestion.
However, there is one absolute maxim when looking at board decision-making; never bet against self-interest.

Cheers
F
 
  • Like
  • Fire
Reactions: 7 users

obe wan

Regular
I mentioned this over at the Crapper, but I'm of the opinion that if AVZ or shareholders get a whiff that the Chinese are trying to obtain a board seat or any other dodgy tactics with their greater than 10%, everyone would be banging down FIRB's door to investigate and get them back under the threshold. I don't think it matters how they do it, from where they do it or what entity they use if domestically registered, bottom line is that a foreign entity will have greater than 10% in an Australian listed entity. Just have to prove to FIRB and connect the dots to establish the links. And when talking about critical minerals like Lithium, Australian Govt would act like they did previously, possibly with USA whispering in their ear.

Also, if the above is unsuccessful and shareholders find out the one of the Board Directors is a Zijin (or other chinese entity) rep that has come on through dodgy means, how many shareholders would try and gather 5% to call an EGM to remove this Director via 249D. I'm sure 75% of votes would be obtained to oust this person. Maybe this way just replaces one Chinese Director with another, but do it a few times and they will get the picture. All imo.
I've posted what below on the crapper, but probably should just have posted here instead, anyway -

There's a couple of things which may need to be brought into the equation , May depend on how fragile Chinese / Australian relationships are. Huayou managed to get a board seat with a placement at over 10% . There's also a number of companies on the ASX with directors placed from Chinese companies who have over 10% stakes.

Yibin 11.2% route got blocked due to it being 'contrary to national interest' , this was a drawn out affair particularly so, as the 10% directors rule is generally not one that is used to trip Chinese investment ; its the 19.9% rule which they are more concerned about ; you invest in Australia @>10%, you're entitled to have a board seat ... control needs to be watchdogged and that 19.9% or approach to that number is what gets the FIRB phone begins to glow red.

FIRBs reasoning was that it was 'contrary to national interest' was a bit shallow ; many assumed that it was because it created competition for Australian lithium miners or other ( although pretty sure bans can be flicked out like confetti to prevent competition) ; the 11.2% was just reduced to 9% and we got on with things

Ask yourself , give me two reasons why would it be contrary to national interest....both answers would be debatable imo

BUT, the Chinese whom would have been in discussion with FIRB throughout this episode gave a bit more detail -

The reason the Chinese were apparently given - Chinese never intended to bring back product to Australia for Processing (see below) ; a bit odd in itself considering the project is in DRC https://hotcrapper.com.au/images/smilies/rolleyes.png , possible some sort of 'we've gotta say something' sort of response, This was during a time when China were ping ponging trade santions at each other , i reckon this was a pretty bullshite and weak excuse , once which Yibin / AVZ had to wear as it was a stamped decision by FIRB .

1672981480520.png
Now , what have we seen announced out of the DRC over the last few months...? DRC ban on exportation of raw materials, this is mainly to do with Cobalt / Copper , but also DRC want to process battery metals in Haut-Katanga

FIRB cant use that 'contrary to national interest' / (because chinese wont export back materials for processing in Australia) again IMO, its basically a DRC goverment decision around mining operations beyond raw exploitation and FIRB cant tell another country how they must run their mining sector or that they must export product back to Australia because an Australian mining company is part of Dathcom .

Personally I reckon Chinese would now secure a board seat by climbing over that 10% just by taking up shares alone , I don't think FIRB could do much about it ...but who knows , there maybe another ridiculous excuse out there
 
  • Like
  • Thinking
  • Fire
Reactions: 9 users

whales

Regular
The only one who say the first trance is done is deeland at the telephone. How do you think they have done it to collect 50 million shares in 10 days over the Christmas days and new year? When the offer is only to german shareholders and after the deeland guys at the telephone now for austria and switzerland and no information from our banks that a offer exist, just 2 dodgy site’s and the bundesanzeiger who clearly warning at the front page that they have a lot scam offers on their own website. We just hear from that offer from a few persons on twitter and a rare amount of people in some forums. How could that shit be legit?
Total scam to draw attention away from the real issues.
Why is Mupande waiting over 7 months now to issue appropriate surface rights.
AJN attempted claim to the supposed relinquishment and use of President name to obtain Northern section of Carrier De Lest ?
IGF needs to look into this and act on it.
 
  • Like
  • Fire
Reactions: 10 users

Onthefm

Regular
Total scam to draw attention away from the real issues.
Why is Mupande waiting over 7 months now to issue appropriate surface rights.
AJN attempted claim to the supposed relinquishment and use of President name to obtain Northern section of Carrier De Lest ?
IGF needs to look into this and act on it.
Jesus the only people on our side is the IGF it's the dirty politicians that need to be sorted out. Wich is fucken hard to do when all the elpresedentay wants to do is ponce around the world telling everyone one that will listen what a great place the drc is to invest. What a fucken joke. The prick needs to stay at home and sort his shit out.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 13 users

Bonsoir

Regular
Jesus the only people on our side is the IGF it's the dirty politicians that need to be sorted out. Wich is fucken hard to do when all the elpresedentay wants to do is ponce around the world telling everyone one that will listen what a great place the drc is to invest. What a fucken joke. The prick needs to stay at home and sort his shit out.
IGF is the one you want on your side.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 10 users

bloke383

Regular
Jesus the only people on our side is the IGF it's the dirty politicians that need to be sorted out. Wich is fucken hard to do when all the elpresedentay wants to do is ponce around the world telling everyone one that will listen what a great place the drc is to invest. What a fucken joke. The prick needs to stay at home and sort his shit out.
We have a few good people on the ground , Franck Fwamba / Kiki /Kasongo etc & the NGO's that are standing up for us as well . Without their support we'd be in an an even worse position . I've been extremely grateful for their vocal show of support , when there has been so little info coming from management . I understand managements decision to remain silent , but it sure has been tough with the constant barrage of blatant lies coming at us continually
 
  • Like
  • Love
  • Fire
Reactions: 27 users

Onthefm

Regular
We have a few good people on the ground , Franck Fwamba / Kiki /Kasongo etc & the NGO's that are standing up for us as well . Without their support we'd be in an an even worse position . I've been extremely grateful for their vocal show of support , when there has been so little info coming from management . I understand managements decision to remain silent , but it sure has been tough with the constant barrage of blatant lies coming at us continuallyagree mate
 

Onthefm

Regular
100 % agree mate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

John25

Regular
Jesus the only people on our side is the IGF it's the dirty politicians that need to be sorted out. Wich is fucken hard to do when all the elpresedentay wants to do is ponce around the world telling everyone one that will listen what a great place the drc is to invest. What a fucken joke. The prick needs to stay at home and sort his shit out.
The international press SHOULD call him out on this “Open for business “ crap …honestly where’s the revenue coming from too pay these clowns dressed in Suits…….Farken forgot about the brown paper bags 🙈🤷‍♂️how remiss
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Love
  • Fire
Reactions: 10 users

obe wan

Regular
Interesting that the tantalex site has now a very stripped down description of tailings project ; no longer a mention of the number 13698

F4B7EB34-2D0C-4846-8360-372A740F28ED.jpeg
 
  • Like
  • Love
  • Thinking
Reactions: 37 users
Jesus the only people on our side is the IGF it's the dirty politicians that need to be sorted out. Wich is fucken hard to do when all the elpresedentay wants to do is ponce around the world telling everyone one that will listen what a great place the drc is to invest. What a fucken joke. The prick needs to stay at home and sort his shit out.
You need to appreciate what Felix Tshisekedi has gone through to get where he is. Once you understand his family legacy and the level of corruption that he needs to unravel it becomes clear why this is taking so long. Strong lions create good times in the pride lands imo

RaxFvJ.gif



Kinshasa – The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) has the reputation for being one of the world's most graft-prone countries, ranking 170th out of 180 nations in Transparency International's 2020 Corruption Perception Index.

But the DRC's recently appointed chief inspector of finance, Jules Alingete Key, says the situation is changing.

Hundreds of millions of dollars have been netted in an anti-corruption drive sparked by an overhaul of his team and a recruitment drive, he told AFP in an interview.

President Felix Tshisekedi, who made the fight against corruption a keystone of his 2019 election campaign, appointed Alingete, 58, head of the General Financial Inspectorate (IGF) in July last year.

Alingete said:

We (found we) had to deal with people who are born into corruption, who grow up immersed in corruption and who consider that corruption and embezzlement are normal.

"The evil ran very deep and very high. We opted to take a tough line... and our methods have had tangible results," he added.

Before, IGF inspectors would go for "small fry", but they now focus on a much wider field, "from simple accountants to managers of public companies and all people who handle public money, including members of government," Alingete said.

In 2020, government income was less than $400 million on average per month, he said.

A crackdown on false claims for tax exemptions began in August 2020, and from March 2021 revenue rose to at least $500 million per month and has sometimes reached $900 million, he said.

Other scams uncovered by the reformed IGF, he said, were overbilling, backdated commissions, illegal transfer of funds and fake documents.

"The most spectacular thefts that we have recorded have been the work of people who are highly placed in state enterprises, in government," he said.

He said:

This area, by the way, is where we have been concentrating most of our efforts. With lower-level officials, it's $100 000 or $200 000 which is siphoned off, but the higher up you go, it's millions of dollars.

At first, help from prosecutors "was difficult", but "when the facts are there, the justice system gets involved. There have been many trials and sentences handed down to senior officials", Key said.

High-profile figures targeted by IGF investigations include Governor Atou Matubuana of Kongo Central province.

He was accused in August of "diverting" 17.4 billion Congolese francs ($8.7 million) in government expenditures last year – spending that his office said was a traditionally accepted benefit for governors.

Alingete said that his unit was still overcoming problems with staff numbers, and this for now limited its investigative scope.

When he took over, the IGF had "at the most" 80 inspectors, nearly half of whom were of retirement age, he said.

"Today, we are increasing our capacity to intervene, and will reach cruising altitude in 2022. We will soon have 200 inspectors."
 
  • Like
  • Fire
  • Thinking
Reactions: 29 users

John25

Regular
Sorry but i find Felix more like this ….All talk no Action or as we say “Full of piss & wind “
1672994769810.gif
 
  • Haha
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 19 users

John25

Regular
We have a election soon ..grow a pair Felix instead of “Show me the evidence”jail a few of these fuckers…probably out on your arse anyway
1672999236516.gif
 
  • Like
  • Fire
  • Haha
Reactions: 5 users

wombat74

Top 20
We have a election soon ..grow a pair Felix instead of “Show me the evidence”jail a few of these fuckers…probably out on your arse anyway
View attachment 26343
Felix will have Chinese pressure . To think otherwise is dreamland and fairytales . He's knows his masters want Manono . He's stuck between a rock and a hard place . Best thing for him is if AVZ just disappears . Not going to happen .
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 7 users

Hudnut

Regular
Why would Felix put the MoP in the clink when it looks like she is mobilising her supporters in favour of his re-election?

https://lepotentiel-cd.translate.go...tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

Like its moral authority embodying conviction and work on the ground for collective progress, the Alliance of Christian Democrats of Congo (ALDEC) remains in this dynamic. The party intends to line up in useful battle order in view of the electoral deadlines scheduled for the end of 2023. If its objective is to achieve a better electoral score in the national and provincial legislative elections, this political formation dear to Princess Adèle Kayinda Mahina clearly shows in favor of the re-election of Félix-Antoine Tshisekedi. Thus, the three-day retreat, organized at the end of December 2022 in Kinshasa, will have enabled its national and provincial executives, who have come from all over the Republic,to refine strategies while sharpening the skills of effective and methodical mobilization to achieve electoral objectives. And the major objective being that of "Fatshi concrete or nothing in 2023", as the moral authority of the party, the Minister of State in charge of the Portfolio, Princess Adele Kayinda, clearly said.

"While welcoming the start of the ongoing electoral process, I encourage you to mobilize our activists to enlist massively, in order to ensure a consolidated parliamentary majority for the President of the Republic Félix-Antoine Tshisekedi Tshilombo" , said the Princess Adele Kayinda.
 
  • Thinking
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: 6 users

TDITD

Top 20
Why would Felix put the MoP in the clink when it looks like she is mobilising her supporters in favour of his re-election?

https://lepotentiel-cd.translate.go...tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

Like its moral authority embodying conviction and work on the ground for collective progress, the Alliance of Christian Democrats of Congo (ALDEC) remains in this dynamic. The party intends to line up in useful battle order in view of the electoral deadlines scheduled for the end of 2023. If its objective is to achieve a better electoral score in the national and provincial legislative elections, this political formation dear to Princess Adèle Kayinda Mahina clearly shows in favor of the re-election of Félix-Antoine Tshisekedi. Thus, the three-day retreat, organized at the end of December 2022 in Kinshasa, will have enabled its national and provincial executives, who have come from all over the Republic,to refine strategies while sharpening the skills of effective and methodical mobilization to achieve electoral objectives. And the major objective being that of "Fatshi concrete or nothing in 2023", as the moral authority of the party, the Minister of State in charge of the Portfolio, Princess Adele Kayinda, clearly said.

"While welcoming the start of the ongoing electoral process, I encourage you to mobilize our activists to enlist massively, in order to ensure a consolidated parliamentary majority for the President of the Republic Félix-Antoine Tshisekedi Tshilombo" , said the Princess Adele Kayinda.
Yes politics look to be saving the green mamba at the moment. It’s possibly a stretch but surely one could posit the suggestion she has disgraced her party, obviously crime is treated differently over there ?
You fuck up here your gone, she gets a free fucking ride after being caught red handed ffs.

Her party should be binning her and Ministry of justice should be taking on Jules great work at the IGF, but that’s somewhat coherent and logical.

Jesus Jean-Felix has been illegitimately holding his DG position for years now.

Must admit I’m struggling with the incomprehensible ‘methods’ of ‘justice’ atm. IGF good job, every other bastard, an absolutely fucking piss poor showing !!

(Great work also to the journalists Kiki & Frank, NGOs too)
 
  • Like
  • Fire
  • Love
Reactions: 15 users
Felix will have Chinese pressure . To think otherwise is dreamland and fairytales . He's knows his masters want Manono . He's stuck between a rock and a hard place . Best thing for him is if AVZ just disappears . Not going to happen .
Weird flex by Tshisekedi's 'Chinese masters' to have him stop raw materials being exported out of the country and to take over operations at Tenke Fungurume last year to make sure the DRC was getting a fair deal. Probably some 4D chess thing that only wombat's understand.


The decision by a commercial court in the southern DR Congo city of Lubumbashi to temporarily suspend China Molybdenum’s (China Moly) management of the enormous Tenke Fungurume copper and cobalt mine (TFM) is the latest twist in an almost-year battle between the government and the Chinese mining giant.

First and foremost, this is a significant setback for China Moly. Given its outsized role in the Congolese mining sector, the court’s ruling is a big deal, both symbolically and in practical terms. It sends the message that Chinese mining interests are not untouchable in the DRC and that Congolese authorities retain considerable power in this relationship.

It also shows that contrary to what many people have assumed, President Félix Tshisekedi may have a lot more room to maneuver against the Chinese mining giant than many had previously thought and that he isn’t shy to use that power when necessary.
 
  • Like
  • Fire
Reactions: 13 users

obe wan

Regular
Weird flex by Tshisekedi's 'Chinese masters' to have him stop raw materials being exported out of the country and to take over operations at Tenke Fungurume last year to make sure the DRC was getting a fair deal. Probably some 4D chess thing that only wombat's understand.


The decision by a commercial court in the southern DR Congo city of Lubumbashi to temporarily suspend China Molybdenum’s (China Moly) management of the enormous Tenke Fungurume copper and cobalt mine (TFM) is the latest twist in an almost-year battle between the government and the Chinese mining giant.

First and foremost, this is a significant setback for China Moly. Given its outsized role in the Congolese mining sector, the court’s ruling is a big deal, both symbolically and in practical terms. It sends the message that Chinese mining interests are not untouchable in the DRC and that Congolese authorities retain considerable power in this relationship.

It also shows that contrary to what many people have assumed, President Félix Tshisekedi may have a lot more room to maneuver against the Chinese mining giant than many had previously thought and that he isn’t shy to use that power when necessary.
On that topic of DRC banning exportation of Raw materials (cobalt / copper being the focus materials at this stage as these are readily mined ) ; DRC looking for battery metals to be processed within country.

I posted an article written by Brad Thompson / AFR yesterday which stated that the Chinese provided the a bit more detail into FIRBs ‘contrary to national interest’ short response as to why it turned down Yibins investment into AVZ at 11.2%. … reasoning ‘ ‘Raw material wouldn’t be returned to Australia for processing’ which I can only assume is true considering we only received a one liners from FIRB which lacked substance ; it was prior to any ban on raw materials from DRC ; it was also before any feasibilities ; I doubt AVZ would include such costs within their calculations per tonne in any case I.e transporting Raw material back to Australia for processing .

With DRC ban on raw materials ; Battery metals (which will include Lithium) being processed within DRC. BFS, will not include transport of raw back to Oz for processing .

What’s your thoughts on a potential chink in the armor of the thoughts that FIRB won’t let the Chinese at AVZ ..

If what the Chinese said was true ; it’s not an excuse FIRB can use again for a project outside of Australia where raw materials are highly unlikely to be exported by government order in any case




287D5EEC-67AA-4918-9D50-9DB9A64C61C6.png
 
  • Like
  • Thinking
Reactions: 5 users
Top Bottom