AVZ Discussion 2022

[IndependenceDay]

Here I go again with the old “Last post for the day hopefully”

I really don’t like being on here tying up the threads day in, day out but I have to say a few things to all the TSE readers

Firstly I realise it’s probably not the best thing to be using profanity here so often but it began in frustration (for many of us) and ended up being a source of fun that may or may not have gone to far, but I hope anyone who is constantly offended at least acknowledges that most of it comes from poster’s here that provide a lot of information and of course I’m aware that there are also more dignified posters. I just wanted to acknowledge that before moving on.

Secondly, an important reason for providing information here (that isn’t acknowledged) is that it provides less experienced shareholders with information to help provide a level playing field.

By that I mean, there are institutional and other investors that are more aware of what’s happening in and around companies (including those short seller arsewipes) that will try and manipulate stocks through any means possible.

Boatman is one example, the scam class action is another…. and yet another is Morgan Stanley, who will put out a report saying the price of lithium will go down (or EV sales will fall etc) right before they buy a whole lot of shares in lithium companies. Then they will put out another report saying the opposite when they want to do the opposite.

When stocks change indexes (eg going into the ASX200 and ASX100) skullduggery arises again in a different form, as big funds are forced into buying. If AVZ succeeds we could go into the ASX top 50 companies.

So many things for investors to consider, so making the playing field more even for everyone is important. Knowledge is important.

One could say we have picked the perfect time to be in suspension…. The global economy has slowed and growth will slow even further. The biggest economies in the world are facing recession.

Prices to construct projects are high due to inflation, interest rates are higher, supply chains experiencing delays as well as higher prices. China in the grip of a major and uncontrollable Covid outbreak, the US will be affected by the Reb’s in Congress and Dem’s in the Senate, higher energy prices affecting manufacturing due to the war in Ukraine and so on and so on.

You could also say we have avoided the big rises and falls other lithium companies like PLS, LTR, CXO etc have experienced.

That’s the glass half full approach…. I take a more realistic approach but my point is the more relevant information on here, the more it provides a level playing field and opportunity for less experienced investors to learn.

Having said all that, I am going to add a few things that are meant to provide a base point for others to consider. It’s how I consider our situation, and might be close to right and equally close to wrong but it’s my current base point, and no doubt the smart and the cunning and the unscrupulous investors have varying opinions around this

…. Now fuck me, after all that waffling I’ve nearly forgotten what that base point is!!

I don’t necessarily trust Felix or Marius or Lukusa. I would not be surprised if Felix didn’t give a shit who has ownership in Dathcom as long as it gets under construction so he can look good before the next election. I hope I am wrong, but the upside is that I still believe we will be owners in Dathcom, it’s just how much of it we own…. So hoping for the best, but just not believing the bullshit that comes from Marius and Lukusa until it becomes fact.

Base point two…. I believe we currently have $25mil left in the bank and by the time we get to arbitration we will have about $15mil in the bank so we will seriously have to start looking at capital.

You lot know me, I’ve always got something to say and the truth is I don’t want to be here and don’t want to be posting comments that are not necessarily positive, but in the end, what I believe is that investors should be on an even playing field and there shouldn’t be so much bullshit.

One thing I can think of that is positive is that the areholes who are trying to fuck us have gone quiet, and if they decided to try to use our capital situation against us, that’s something AVZ exec’s and BOD would be very aware of and should have under control

All my opinion only, and I’ll be fucked if I know why I keep putting myself through this…. Please @zeeb0t put me out of my fucken misery

 

[IndependenceDay]

Hey Moneybags, As one of the less experienced shareholders that you refer to I just want to say that I appreciate this post and the efforts of you more experienced folk to ‘level the playing field’ by sharing your knowledge and insights.
Much appreciated.

 

[obe wan]

Why on earth did management take CAMI to court to finalise the licence if we aren't accepting it as it stands in the ministerial decree?
View attachment 26752

But isn't the issue around what contained in the exploitation decree / licence offering and how it's contrary to what the mining code says .....understanding is that decree issued ; Management were aware of the North / South split ( exploitation / exploration both under AVZ ) , weren't overly happy, but happy enough to roll with it and contimued trading only for the handbrake to be pulled ,as CAMIs North is being remembered / revoked and ready to accept new applications” plan was rolled out on the benchtop and AVZ were told ye nah, the direction came from Felix, but you guys can make an application too.

That direction never came from Felix and AVZs legal eagles went back to recite the mining code for the umpteenth time.

Ye I've heard the one about AVZ bringing them into court and bring told that the reason for the hold up was because CAMI we're still calculating the mining rights figures......do I believe that..? No, that's ridiculous in my view, how could that be the cause of 8 months of chain dragging

It's not difficult for someone to asking for the mining application and process book run a calculation on the time between decree and ML in a frame ; they’d all be less than a month, but AVZ IS 8+ months ; I'm pretty sure if that was just the case then DG could be ordered by Felix to press the buttons or find a job in Maccas, as all the data is there

If AVZ had agreed to run with what was presented, then we’d be trading now and no doubt the northern section would probably already have been locked away and registered under AJN/ Congo resources in lightening speed .

Did AVZ bring CAMI to court just to get the licence released and get the calculator excuse...was it before, during of after that when the revoked part flushed out..? .who knows

Now my reply to wombat, as to if ML would be granted if we just agreed to the cut ; I responded yes, I've zero doubt that at the time that would have been correct ; but obviously we don't know how far this has gone up the ladder and what one way valves have been opened I.e. AVZ standing firm and looking for what rightful Dathcom are entitled to and wanting North and South..... That's exactly what is be doing, fuck Klaus, DG, MoP, Zijin and Co. Fwiw if it came out that northern area was gone to others, the is be looking for the best opportunity to sell out in the short term / medium term; I've no doubts that the Chinese would fick AVZ up by opening up Carrier in no time ;they’d have their licence with a 10 page application in less time than it would take us to build the plant ; DG would make sure of that .

If AVZ had of brought CAMi to court to get DG to release the licence alone and the excuse was his calculator was broken ; the court would have issued a date for it to be resolved by...assuming all things were legit and in line with the codes....problem is from my understanding, it wasn't in line with the code and that's what's caused the 8 month + delay and not DGs calculator

Your comment also suggests that it probably wasn't just a court case To get the license release without any issues involved - “It's only a misunderstanding because Nigel was talking about the process before the ministerial decree. We can't have a court order to issue the licence anymore because we already legally have the licence that management agreed to.”

 

[Panther22]

Lot of time and effort put into your posts people, very impressive. But it is all speculation.
I am slowly moving to the Takeover camp so we all get paid and move on.
As it stands now AVZ is bad for your health and wealth. I have had enough.

 

[Mr Clean]

How could anybody actually willingly stop the production happening in Manono? Surely everyone loses if no mine is made. Makes no sense. This has really tested my patience. It’s all illogical

 

[whales]

But isn't the issue around what contained in the exploitation decree / licence offering and how it's contrary to what the mining code says .....understanding is that decree issued ; Management were aware of the North / South split ( exploitation / exploration both under AVZ ) , weren't overly happy, but happy enough to roll with it and contimued trading only for the handbrake to be pulled ,as CAMIs North is being remembered / revoked and ready to accept new applications” plan was rolled out on the benchtop and AVZ were told ye nah, the direction came from Felix, but you guys can make an application too.

That direction never came from Felix and AVZs legal eagles went back to recite the mining code for the umpteenth time.

Ye I've heard the one about AVZ bringing them into court and bring told that the reason for the hold up was because CAMI we're still calculating the mining rights figures......do I believe that..? No, that's ridiculous in my view, how could that be the cause of 8 months of chain dragging

It's not difficult for someone to asking for the mining application and process book run a calculation on the time between decree and ML in a frame ; they’d all be less than a month, but AVZ IS 8+ months ; I'm pretty sure if that was just the case then DG could be ordered by Felix to press the buttons or find a job in Maccas, as all the data is there

If AVZ had agreed to run with what was presented, then we’d be trading now and no doubt the northern section would probably already have been locked away and registered under AJN/ Congo resources in lightening speed .

Did AVZ bring CAMI to court just to get the licence released and get the calculator excuse...was it before, during of after that when the revoked part flushed out..? .who knows

Now my reply to wombat, as to if ML would be granted if we just agreed to the cut ; I responded yes, I've zero doubt that at the time that would have been correct ; but obviously we don't know how far this has gone up the ladder and what one way valves have been opened I.e. AVZ standing firm and looking for what rightful Dathcom are entitled to and wanting North and South..... That's exactly what is be doing, fuck Klaus, DG, MoP, Zijin and Co. Fwiw if it came out that northern area was gone to others, the is be looking for the best opportunity to sell out in the short term / medium term; I've no doubts that the Chinese would fick AVZ up by opening up Carrier in no time ;they’d have their licence with a 10 page application in less time than it would take us to build the plant ; DG would make sure of that .

If AVZ had of brought CAMi to court to get DG to release the licence alone and the excuse was his calculator was broken ; the court would have issued a date for it to be resolved by...assuming all things were legit and in line with the codes....problem is from my understanding, it wasn't in line with the code and that's what's caused the 8 month + delay and not DGs calculator

Your comment also suggests that it probably wasn't just a court case To get the license release without any issues involved - “It's only a misunderstanding because Nigel was talking about the process before the ministerial decree. We can't have a court order to issue the licence anymore because we already legally have the licence that management agreed to.”

Would be good to know if AVZ have written proof in email exchange that the President did not say or request that the Northern Section be split up.
Surely this is exactly what the IGF are after to implicate Mupande .? and others involved.?

 

[obe wan]

Would be good to know if AVZ have written proof in email exchange that the President did not say or request that the Northern Section be split up.
Surely this is exactly what the IGF are after to implicate Mupande .? and others involved.?

Think it may have even been Frank who brought that one to light ; surfaced in a roadshow too fwiw

 

[Modo]

How could anybody actually willingly stop the production happening in Manono? Surely everyone loses if no mine is made. Makes no sense. This has really tested my patience. It’s all illogical

When many are balls deep, possibly leveraged up their arseholes, they need to be positive.

Its human nature.

Is there actually anyone on the ground in the DRC from AVZ actually fighting the cause for SH’s?? Or are they letting the Chinese run the show??

They can’t rely on the local lawyers, who is to say they have not already been infiltrated by the Chinese?

They can give the impression they are fighting the good fight for the loyal AVZ holders but are they??

Its a simple question.

 

[obe wan]

Lot of time and effort put into your posts people, very impressive. But it is all speculation.
I am slowly moving to the Takeover camp so we all get paid and move on.
As it stands now AVZ is bad for your health and wealth. I have had enough.

I think there's a fair few in that camp now @Panther22 ; I've always said that I don't reckon AVZ will get it into production ; it's just too valuable a resource and it would be open season after ML, when all sorts would come out of the woodwork and have a crack ; id expect a couple of counters too fwiw and I reckon everyone else does too, hence why I think the Chinese will do everything to trip the company up and consume them from the inside

 

[obe wan]

When many are balls deep, possibly leveraged up their arseholes, they need to be positive.

Its human nature.

Is there actually anyone on the ground in the DRC from AVZ actually fighting the cause for SH’s?? Or are they letting the Chinese run the show??

They can’t rely on the local lawyers, who is to say they have not already been infiltrated by the Chinese?

They can give the impression they are fighting the good fight for the loyal AVZ holders but are they??

Its a simple question.

Understanding Balizar and Serge AVZ board members are in country ; those two are highly regarded by other members of the board ; Marius Mihigo strategic advisor / negotiator also on the ground, but hey no doubt some shareholders after this long drawn out mess will have thoughts of what's on the ground in the DRC, has it already been licked by a chinaman

 

[TDITD]

I think there's a fair few in that camp now @Panther22 ; I've always said that I don't reckon AVZ will get it into production ; it's just too valuable a resource and it would be open season after ML, when all sorts would come out of the woodwork and have a crack ; id expect a couple of counters too fwiw and I reckon everyone else does too, hence why I think the Chinese will do everything to trip the company up and consume them from the inside

At this stage and how far away we appear from coming out of suspension, I’d take this scenario.
An initial bid followed by a few counters, as long as we all get a free mental health assessment thrown in.


Shit have I finally been turned

 

[Carlos Danger]

But isn't the issue around what contained in the exploitation decree / licence offering and how it's contrary to what the mining code says .....understanding is that decree issued ; Management were aware of the North / South split ( exploitation / exploration both under AVZ ) , weren't overly happy, but happy enough to roll with it and contimued trading only for the handbrake to be pulled ,as CAMIs North is being remembered / revoked and ready to accept new applications” plan was rolled out on the benchtop and AVZ were told ye nah, the direction came from Felix, but you guys can make an application too.

That direction never came from Felix and AVZs legal eagles went back to recite the mining code for the umpteenth time.

Ye I've heard the one about AVZ bringing them into court and bring told that the reason for the hold up was because CAMI we're still calculating the mining rights figures......do I believe that..? No, that's ridiculous in my view, how could that be the cause of 8 months of chain dragging

It's not difficult for someone to asking for the mining application and process book run a calculation on the time between decree and ML in a frame ; they’d all be less than a month, but AVZ IS 8+ months ; I'm pretty sure if that was just the case then DG could be ordered by Felix to press the buttons or find a job in Maccas, as all the data is there

If AVZ had agreed to run with what was presented, then we’d be trading now and no doubt the northern section would probably already have been locked away and registered under AJN/ Congo resources in lightening speed .

Did AVZ bring CAMI to court just to get the licence released and get the calculator excuse...was it before, during of after that when the revoked part flushed out..? .who knows

Now my reply to wombat, as to if ML would be granted if we just agreed to the cut ; I responded yes, I've zero doubt that at the time that would have been correct ; but obviously we don't know how far this has gone up the ladder and what one way valves have been opened I.e. AVZ standing firm and looking for what rightful Dathcom are entitled to and wanting North and South..... That's exactly what is be doing, fuck Klaus, DG, MoP, Zijin and Co. Fwiw if it came out that northern area was gone to others, the is be looking for the best opportunity to sell out in the short term / medium term; I've no doubts that the Chinese would fick AVZ up by opening up Carrier in no time ;they’d have their licence with a 10 page application in less time than it would take us to build the plant ; DG would make sure of that .

If AVZ had of brought CAMi to court to get DG to release the licence alone and the excuse was his calculator was broken ; the court would have issued a date for it to be resolved by...assuming all things were legit and in line with the codes....problem is from my understanding, it wasn't in line with the code and that's what's caused the 8 month + delay and not DGs calculator

Your comment also suggests that it probably wasn't just a court case To get the license release without any issues involved - “It's only a misunderstanding because Nigel was talking about the process before the ministerial decree. We can't have a court order to issue the licence anymore because we already legally have the licence that management agreed to.”

Do you think Franck Fwamba is lying when he says a document exists about Dathcom taking CAMI to court?

The court would have no say on whether 'things were legit and in line with the codes' at this point. That was the job of the favourable opinion bodies including CAMI and the Minister of Mines. And if the court did consider those issues in the case brought by Dathcom then I'm sure Franck would have mentioned it.

Personally I think the problem is as simple as Mupande doesn't want to calculate the surface rights because we didn't bribe him and he is using CAMI's autonomy to delay things because he is trying to give the 'disputed' northern area to the people that did bribe him. Sugar babies ain't cheap.

Nothing will happen until the northern area is worked out or Mupande is replaced imo

 

[TDITD]

Do you think Franck Fwamba is lying when he says a document exists about Dathcom taking CAMI to court?

The court would have no say on whether 'things were legit and in line with the codes' at this point. That was the job of the favourable opinion bodies including CAMI and the Minister of Mines. And if the court did consider those issues in the case brought by Dathcom then I'm sure Franck would have mentioned it.

Personally I think the problem is as simple as Mupande doesn't want to calculate the surface rights because we didn't bribe him and he is using CAMI's autonomy to delay things because he is trying to give the 'disputed' northern area to the people that did bribe him. Sugar babies ain't cheap.

Nothing will happen until the northern area is worked out or Mupande is replaced imo

View attachment 26774

Sugar babies ain’t cheap

 

[John25]

At this stage and how far away we appear from coming out of suspension, I’d take this scenario.
An initial bid followed by a few counters, as long as we all get a free mental health assessment thrown in.


Shit have I finally been turned

Welcome to the Dark Side Titts Of the TO
Wombat & Cashy will serve evening drinks ,Ill look after your luggage

 

[obe wan]

Do you think Franck Fwamba is lying when he says a document exists about Dathcom taking CAMI to court?

The court would have no say on whether 'things were legit and in line with the codes' at this point. That was the job of the favourable opinion bodies including CAMI and the Minister of Mines. And if the court did consider those issues in the case brought by Dathcom then I'm sure Franck would have mentioned it.

Personally I think the problem is as simple as Mupande doesn't want to calculate the surface rights because we didn't bribe him and he is using CAMI's autonomy to delay things because he is trying to give the 'disputed' northern area to the people that did bribe him. Sugar babies ain't cheap.

Nothing will happen until the northern area is worked out or Mupande is replaced imo

View attachment 26774

Not saying Frank is lying at all, but at what point did they bring CAMI to court?

You posted earlier today that they couldn't bring CAMI to court as we already had the licence ; but the thing is that they could, as it's been printed somewhere before once decree kicks in 30 days (or something around that is the timing) is the maximum length of time for it's release, it can then be summoned to court and the court would automatically authorise it for it's release, basically that's the final lever in a typical application case ; so why hasn't the court authorized its release? Does DG sit above the law also? Can FT not ask DG to just press the buttons?

When did it register with the BoD that Carrier was going to go missing ; did that ‘release of licence’ court case happen, surface right calculation excuse came up, discussion about north and south and how north wasn't going to happen in any case etc etc...who knows, but the north has been the issue which has dragged this thing out and not totally around DGs ‘ill do it when I've time’ attitude to doing his job ; that makes zero sense, that's just called ‘not doing your job’ ; he's signed off bags of exploration / exploitation licences between then and now ; it's in his scope of work ; it a bit like asking the receptionist at the front desk to answer phone and do some filing...’nah’ / well thats the easiest way to get booted.

The north can't be in ‘dispute’ unless someone put in and lodged an application whilst someone else ( AVZ) had interest in it ; why would a company lodge an application if there wasn't a door opened and why would CAMI accept in an application through it's administration channels, if that area was already awarded to AVZ? Why would AVZ bring Cami to court for release of licence unless they were Totally fine about giving the north away OR at the time they weren't fully clues up

What would DGs review summary say as to why north has been put back out to new application ?

AVZ may well have gone to court ; but whats supposedly an automatic release at that stage hasn't happened.

So what is it ‘DG ain't pressing the numbers on the calculator’ or AVZ not accepting that the Northern area was being revoked?

Now that lawyers have visited that revoking issue...has that been sorted or not and Dathcom wanting the tenement in it's entirety ; if it has, ye DG still maybe slow on the fingers, but I very much doubt he's just not calculating the rights cost and being able to to drag it out by months, if he's knownly had all the areas which were agreed to on hand

 

[DiscoDanNZ]

I stopped by the WACA as one of my last things to do on my WA holiday and to my surprise the AVZ team were there having a game of backyard cricket, everyone was in high spirits.

(that's the most photogenic it gets, was not worth the effort)

I asked Nige when the ML would come and he just gave me cheeky smile and asked if I wanted to see him hit some dingers (Simpsons joke FYI). If only he hit corrupt DRC politicians like he smokes the leather through cover for 6....

Seriously though I'm pretty dusty from drinking my way through Little Creatures and Gage Road breweries before catching up with @BEISHA for dinner and refreshments. It was good to meet you mate, thanks for the pointers on my investment strategies. I think my key take away from your advice was that I just need to stop

 

[obe wan]

Do you think Franck Fwamba is lying when he says a document exists about Dathcom taking CAMI to court?

The court would have no say on whether 'things were legit and in line with the codes' at this point. That was the job of the favourable opinion bodies including CAMI and the Minister of Mines. And if the court did consider those issues in the case brought by Dathcom then I'm sure Franck would have mentioned it.

Personally I think the problem is as simple as Mupande doesn't want to calculate the surface rights because we didn't bribe him and he is using CAMI's autonomy to delay things because he is trying to give the 'disputed' northern area to the people that did bribe him. Sugar babies ain't cheap.

Nothing will happen until the northern area is worked out or Mupande is replaced imo

View attachment 26774

The court would have no say on whether 'things were legit and in line with the codes' at this point. That was the job of the favourable opinion bodies including CAMI and the Minister of Mines. And if the court did consider those issues in the case brought by Dathcom then I'm sure Franck would have mentioned it.

The issue isn't around the favorable opinion ; we got the favourable opinions not an issue, hence why decree was issued .... Its just that DG only put half the cake in the box

 

[Carlos Danger]

Not saying Frank is lying at all, but at what point did they bring CAMI to court?

You posted earlier today that they couldn't bring CAMI to court as we already had the licence ; but the thing is that they could, as it's been printed somewhere before once decree kicks in 30 days (or something around that is the timing) is the maximum length of time for it's release, it can then be summoned to court and the court would automatically authorise it for it's release, basically that's the final lever in a typical application case ; so why hasn't the court authorized its release? Does DG sit above the law also? Can FT not ask DG to just press the buttons?

When did it register with the BoD that Carrier was going to go missing ; did that ‘release of licence’ court case happen, surface right calculation excuse came up, discussion about north and south and how north wasn't going to happen in any case etc etc...who knows, but the north has been the issue which has dragged this thing out and not totally around DGs ‘ill do it when I've time’ attitude to doing his job ; that makes zero sense, that's just called ‘not doing your job’ ; he's signed off bags of exploration / exploitation licences between then and now ; it's in his scope of work ; it a bit like asking the receptionist at the front desk to answer phone and do some filing...’nah’ / well thats the easiest way to get booted.

The north can't be in ‘dispute’ unless someone put in and lodged an application whilst someone else ( AVZ) had interest in it ; why would a company lodge an application if there wasn't a door opened and why would CAMI accept in an application through it's administration channels, if that area was already awarded to AVZ? Why would AVZ bring Cami to court for release of licence unless they were Totally fine about giving the north away OR at the time they weren't fully clues up

What would DGs review summary say as to why north has been put back out to new application ?

AVZ may well have gone to court ; but whats supposedly an automatic release at that stage hasn't happened.

So what is it ‘DG ain't pressing the numbers on the calculator’ or AVZ not accepting that the Northern area was being revoked? Now that lawyers have visited that revoking issue...has that been sorted or not and Dathcom wanting the tenement in it's entirety ; if it has, ye DG still maybe slow on the fingers, but I very much doubt his not calculating the rights cost if he had all the areas which were agreed to on hand

The first potential court case would have been to obtain an order requiring the Minister of Mines to issue the ministerial decree

The second actual court case with CAMI was to have the ministerial decree finalised

I agree with pretty much everything else you say

Nigel said at the AGM that the north 'may' need to come under a separate exploration tenement. Which contradicts the May 4th official announcement. So obviously discussions are ongoing.

A lot of what we know has only come to light after the AGM. There is definitely much more going on that we don't know because management isn't telling us.

 

[Carlos Danger]

The court would have no say on whether 'things were legit and in line with the codes' at this point. That was the job of the favourable opinion bodies including CAMI and the Minister of Mines. And if the court did consider those issues in the case brought by Dathcom then I'm sure Franck would have mentioned it.

The issue isn't around the favorable opinion ; we got the favourable opinions not an issue, hence why decree was issued .... Its just that DG only put half the cake in the box

Yes I know that was my point haha

DG was only able to put half the cake in the box with the approval of AVZ management and the Minister of Mines

 

[obe wan]

The first potential court case would have been to obtain an order requiring the Minister of Mines to issue the ministerial decree

The second actual court case with CAMI was to have the ministerial decree finalised

I agree with pretty much everything else you say

Nigel said at the AGM that the north 'may' need to come under a separate exploration tenement. Which contradicts the May 4th official announcement. So obviously discussions are ongoing.

A lot of what we know has only come to light after the AGM. There is definitely much more going on that we don't know because management isn't telling us.

I wasn't aware of the initial court case in order to have the decree issued.

The second, decree finalised and issued to ML ; yes this was in possible requirement in the whole application process if things weren't moving along. Frank mentioned it happened as per your post ; I heard it happened, but didn't think more of if as by then id already heard for tenement split issues, so on a planning board we’d already past ‘the second court ‘ date and something contrary to what should be happening, was happening

Yep agree and there's a lot of shifting sands information out there and I reckon at this stage Nigel finds it hard to believe half, of what he's told by various individuals from all sides