AVZ Discussion 2022

[MoneyBags1348]

My imagination and mind has been completely blown with this 14 month ongoing suspended skullduggery shit fest !!

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So a question for you, how the fuck does CMOC come into the equation / conversation here in the first place ?

Did they not admit to screwing over the DRC govt for $2b dollars ?...............which lets be honest here, its probably a helluva lot more..

So , the DRC govt going to repay that " faith " to CMOC by giving them a slice of the most important / strategic project the world will ever see regards to lithium ?..........

Whats the difference between that thieving fucker and Zijin ?

I know for a fact, the majority of posters on this forum would be fucking furious if Zijin was still allowed to be part of the JV, with the bullshit they have attempted to pull off !...,, so would CMOC soothe the LTH frayed nerves instead ?....

Here is a few pertinent points that really concern me regards to my continued long term investment.

a) AVZ relationship ( trust / faith ) with DRC govt would have to be almost fucked with what has been transpired the last 14 months

" We knew the chinese entities would attempt to deceive, but we didnt expect the DRC govt would be complicit "

Thats the general quote from NF in the previous AGM....now the BOD have taken them to the highest court in the world !....UGLY

b) Presedential election...............china have a massive influence in not only DRC but AFRICA in general ( BRICS ), how do we know if FT or another presedential elect, will pull the rug under AVZ feet once again going forward with more brown paper bags to suit China agenda ?

c) Chinese entities have massive share holdings ( voting rights ) within AVZ, therefore it wouldnt surprise me if they colluded to force a future EGM to potentially boot out BOD members or ALL, to suit their agenda.

As much as i have a very close affinity for AVZ and the remarkable deposit they have that could transform so many peoples lives, i am not in love with the stock, i have many other " irons in the fire " in much safer sovereign juristictions with much lower MC, so the chance of me making multiple bags more than what AVZ could provide would be exponential

That being said, this is all cart before the horse and nothing is set in stone with my decision making, just my musings at this stage.

BTW, nice stiff on @Elmitso .....

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Wow BEISH, a lot of questions and I was going to have the day off…. Anyway I’ll give you some of my reasoning

CMOC came into the equation when Felix and Julien decided to have discussions with both them and CATH together regarding building a battery manufacturing facility in Haut-Katanga recently and from memory they wanted it sorted by the time the DRC-AFRICA Battery Minerals event takes place in September

My opinion is that a Chinese company has to be involved given everything I have read on DRC - Chinese relations and mining. If CMOC.were to become involved, it wouldn’t be through the same nefarious avenue that Zijin took.

CMOC also has a partnership with Gecamines in the Tenke Fungurume copper cobalt mine and if you wanted to cast your imagination further you could even speculate that a partnership involving this combination would give the DRC what it wants which is a greater portion of ownership in the project, and also the possibilities of the project and infrastructure being built in a shorter timeframe, the CAPEX being shared, the DRC accepting this as a more favourable outcome than being sued in the ICSID and the project being held up even longer, and a shorter time frame to production including PLS and or li carbonate.

My view is, a shorter time to production and a PLS plant with less CAPEX for us would also see a much faster increase in our share price.

If a joint venture occurred, the ownership would be in Dathcom, not AVZ, and if AVZ remained majority shareholder in Dathcom we wouldn’t lose control in either.

In the above scenario, China and DRC have a stake in the project and if it were to happen, I would be pretty sure AVZ would have it legally water tight ahead of such an agreement as we now have the experience and benefit of hindsight.

CATH wouldn’t be keen on forking out all the money to build a battery manufacturing plant but they do want the lithium and CMOC have similar ambitions. There was a reason Sama Lukonde let CMOC get away with not being audited and why they have recently signed an agreement with Gecamines

Anyway I could write a whole chapter on this, it’s just my opinion and others might disagree.

Only other thing I have to say is keep an eye out for the lurkers and trolls here with nothing of value to add

 

[cruiser51]

Fairly standard for PRs, and yes, as I said, only if AVZ gets taken over

@Chilla makes a good point, the ATM facility would be cancelled. I haven’t checked outstanding PR volumes, but wouldn’t be >60m, so my original thesis is completely fucked, and I have fucking wasted everyone’s fucking time

Fuck it

This is from todays announcement

 

[Hodlandwin69]

View attachment 40385
This is from todays announcement

people talk about BoD havent disclosed about taking a pay cut, but for some of them, most of the pay is in the form of performance right share issuance. So i mean.... clearly they are kinda taking a pay cut.

 

[Remark]

people talk about BoD havent disclosed about taking a pay cut, but for some of them, most of the pay is in the form of performance right share issuance. So i mean.... clearly they are kinda taking a pay cut.

I'm sure they'll survive.

 

[Xerof]

@cruiser51 thanks mate, they must have heard us talking. @Chilla would I be right in saying the 60m ATM shares issued as security are included in the ord shares total?

 

[BEISHA]

Wow BEISH, a lot of questions and I was going to have the day off…. Anyway I’ll give you some of my reasoning

CMOC came into the equation when Felix and Julien decided to have discussions with both them and CATH together regarding building a battery manufacturing facility in Haut-Katanga recently and from memory they wanted it sorted by the time the DRC-AFRICA Battery Minerals event takes place in September

My opinion is that a Chinese company has to be involved given everything I have read on DRC - Chinese relations and mining. If CMOC.were to become involved, it wouldn’t be through the same nefarious avenue that Zijin took.

CMOC also has a partnership with Gecamines in the Tenke Fungurume copper cobalt mine and if you wanted to cast your imagination further you could even speculate that a partnership involving this combination would give the DRC what it wants which is a greater portion of ownership in the project, and also the possibilities of the project and infrastructure being built in a shorter timeframe, the CAPEX being shared, the DRC accepting this as a more favourable outcome than being sued in the ICSID and the project being held up even longer, and a shorter time frame to production including PLS and or li carbonate.

My view is, a shorter time to production and a PLS plant with less CAPEX for us would also see a much faster increase in our share price.

If a joint venture occurred, the ownership would be in Dathcom, not AVZ, and if AVZ remained majority shareholder in Dathcom we wouldn’t lose control in either.

In the above scenario, China and DRC have a stake in the project and if it were to happen, I would be pretty sure AVZ would have it legally water tight ahead of such an agreement as we now have the experience and benefit of hindsight.

CATH wouldn’t be keen on forking out all the money to build a battery manufacturing plant but they do want the lithium and CMOC have similar ambitions. There was a reason Sama Lukonde let CMOC get away with not being audited and why they have recently signed an agreement with Gecamines

Anyway I could write a whole chapter on this, it’s just my opinion and others might disagree.

Only other thing I have to say is keep an eye out for the lurkers and trolls here with nothing of value to add

Appreciate the insight, as always.

You make very good points regards to CAPEX and shorter time frame to production.......and yes, China does need to be involved considering the " strategic relationship they have had with DRC for over 30yrs.

However, that being said TRUST is the missing element, its fucking important............water tight agreements mean nothing, AVZ already had water tight agreements pre ML decree, yet here we are.

Does NF / LTH have the ticker to go the journey to production given what has been transpired ?

Yes, i have alot of questions, who wouldnt ?

Sad to hear that LLL is in a suspended TH............DSO operations issues, what the fuck could that entail ?

Mali govt changing the goal post?

I certainly hope not for you and others invested...........thats the proverbial double whammy !!

Went to the HC LLL thread................infested with dirty grubs stating AVZ 2.0...............scum.

Grateful to be here and having rational debates with respect, you will always get the odd turd arriving here, the beauty of this forum is that those fuckers get exterminated rather quick.

 

[cruiser51]

@cruiser51 thanks mate, they must have heard us talking. @Chilla would I be right in saying the 60m ATM shares issued as security are included in the ord shares total?

I can't answer this question to be honest, would have to go back through company announcements.

However one would think so.

 

[SilentOne]

Wow BEISH, a lot of questions and I was going to have the day off…. Anyway I’ll give you some of my reasoning

CMOC came into the equation when Felix and Julien decided to have discussions with both them and CATH together regarding building a battery manufacturing facility in Haut-Katanga recently and from memory they wanted it sorted by the time the DRC-AFRICA Battery Minerals event takes place in September

My opinion is that a Chinese company has to be involved given everything I have read on DRC - Chinese relations and mining. If CMOC.were to become involved, it wouldn’t be through the same nefarious avenue that Zijin took.

CMOC also has a partnership with Gecamines in the Tenke Fungurume copper cobalt mine and if you wanted to cast your imagination further you could even speculate that a partnership involving this combination would give the DRC what it wants which is a greater portion of ownership in the project, and also the possibilities of the project and infrastructure being built in a shorter timeframe, the CAPEX being shared, the DRC accepting this as a more favourable outcome than being sued in the ICSID and the project being held up even longer, and a shorter time frame to production including PLS and or li carbonate.

My view is, a shorter time to production and a PLS plant with less CAPEX for us would also see a much faster increase in our share price.

If a joint venture occurred, the ownership would be in Dathcom, not AVZ, and if AVZ remained majority shareholder in Dathcom we wouldn’t lose control in either.

In the above scenario, China and DRC have a stake in the project and if it were to happen, I would be pretty sure AVZ would have it legally water tight ahead of such an agreement as we now have the experience and benefit of hindsight.

CATH wouldn’t be keen on forking out all the money to build a battery manufacturing plant but they do want the lithium and CMOC have similar ambitions. There was a reason Sama Lukonde let CMOC get away with not being audited and why they have recently signed an agreement with Gecamines

Anyway I could write a whole chapter on this, it’s just my opinion and others might disagree.

Only other thing I have to say is keep an eye out for the lurkers and trolls here with nothing of value to add

Money thoroughly love the above and is food for thought.

However, I think that if the Chinese were part of any JV regardless of how tight the agreement was drawn up - we would hemorrhage value.

You certainly dont want them sitting on any JV board based on our experience with Sin Bin it would be like being eaten from the inside out.

Just a thought.

SilentOne

 

[Remark]

I can't answer this question to be honest, would have to go back through company announcements.

However one would think so.

Excuse my poor highlighting skills...

 

[cruiser51]

Excuse my poor highlighting skills...

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Thank you

 

[Winenut]

For what it's worth whatever is hopefully panning out and being negotiated I would not be dropping any of the arbitration cases and hearings we have pending

I would be hanging onto those for dear life as bargaining chips and tools to keep everyone potentially involved in line and in fucking check going forward

 

[TDITD]

For what it's worth whatever is hopefully panning out and being negotiated I would not be dropping any of the arbitration cases and hearings we have pending

I would be hanging onto those for dear life as bargaining chips and tools to keep everyone potentially involved in line and in fucking check going forward

Agreed , that and everyone involved 1st born child.

 

[Chilla]

@cruiser51 thanks mate, they must have heard us talking. @Chilla would I be right in saying the 60m ATM shares issued as security are included in the ord shares total?

Yep they are included in the total issued. They were issued as security against the ATM when the facility was established.

 

[JAG]

Absolute classic...

 

[Shire]

For what it's worth whatever is hopefully panning out and being negotiated I would not be dropping any of the arbitration cases and hearings we have pending

I would be hanging onto those for dear life as bargaining chips and tools to keep everyone potentially involved in line and in fucking check going forward

Do we know anything is being negotiated? There’s been no news. All we have heard is that we are off to court(s).

 

[Dazmac66]

He is a flog that Hoots critter! Anyway I was relieved to see that announcement today as it suggests a pulse still present. Was getting a bit worried.

 

[wombat74]

people talk about BoD havent disclosed about taking a pay cut, but for some of them, most of the pay is in the form of performance right share issuance. So i mean.... clearly they are kinda taking a pay cut.

Don't worry. If AVZ still exists they will be gifting themselves fresh freebies to replace the ones that expired . IMO

 

[MoneyBags1348]

Appreciate the insight, as always.

You make very good points regards to CAPEX and shorter time frame to production.......and yes, China does need to be involved considering the " strategic relationship they have had with DRC for over 30yrs.

However, that being said TRUST is the missing element, its fucking important............water tight agreements mean nothing, AVZ already had water tight agreements pre ML decree, yet here we are.

Does NF / LTH have the ticker to go the journey to production given what has been transpired ?

Yes, i have alot of questions, who wouldnt ?

Sad to hear that LLL is in a suspended TH............DSO operations issues, what the fuck could that entail ?

Mali govt changing the goal post?

I certainly hope not for you and others invested...........thats the proverbial double whammy !!

Went to the HC LLL thread................infested with dirty grubs stating AVZ 2.0...............scum.

Grateful to be here and having rational debates with respect, you will always get the odd turd arriving here, the beauty of this forum is that those fuckers get exterminated rather quick.

View attachment 40387

BEISH, I don’t really know what is going on with LLL because I keep up to date with AVZ and that’s enough. I also think other stocks are for other threads but I noticed there are no comments on TSE on the LLL forum other than ASX .announcements

As a starting point, for what’s going on with the government there and LLL’s DSO, I would consider the Wagner group of Russian mercenaries have left and Russia may have to decide whether their troops will take on overseeing the safety of shipments of the ore along transport routes or whether Chinese military would take on that role to protect Ganfeng’s interests.

This could be way off the mark but I would put that out there and then work out what else might be happening from any type of information that came back. Could be anything really, but you know me, I spent a lot of my early twenties consuming magic mushrooms and I’m capable of coming up with anything…. Which is why I will just wait for LLL to announce what’s going on

All I really know is when you spend a lot of time investing in the stock market you spend a lot of time learning the hard way

 

[Winenut]

Do we know anything is being negotiated? There’s been no news. All we have heard is that we are off to court(s).

Most indications seem to be that there are/have been discussions

If not then yeah.....it's off to the courts

 

[Doc]

Most indications seem to be that there are/have been discussions

If not then yeah.....it's off to the courts

Is DLA Piper on the ASX? Might be worth a punt