BRN Discussion Ongoing

[Justchilln]

The key is the scale. VVDN's boxes will not be the same as Renesas' products for instance.
Sean also touched on "seven figure" License ($1m+) and at least 3x-5x in royalties ($3m+)

But as far as your calculations, it's volume that matters.
On a not-to-scale basis, if Renesas sold 100x products, more than VVDN boxes. you can see how things add up quickly.
Also I think the claim was nearly 100% so I did 95% for to cover any averaged ongoing costs related to supporting the client.

30% x $20 x 1000 = $6000
95% x $0.40 x 100,000 = $38,000

3x-5x royalties……. I remember him saying that but didn’t understand what he meant…… I’m
Guessing he meant annually?

 

[Damo4]

3x-5x royalties……. I remember him saying that but didn’t understand what he meant…… I’m
Guessing he meant annually?

I think it was in Noah's podcast/interview.
And I don't recall a timeline so I would have to assume in total.

EG.
- $4m in upfront costs from Megachips (I forget how many nodes)
- $12m - $20m in royalties expected for that license.

The goal is obviously multiple licenses or, node upgrades, or even Generation upgrades that I assume cost more.

 

[DingoBorat]

Selling physical chips is less profitable???
Sure the margin is lower but say 30% profit on a $20 chip seems far more profitable to me than 100% margin on a say 40cent IP royaltie?????

Selling physical chips requires huge capital outlay, in the 10s of millions of dollars (at scale).

Capital we simply do not have, without huge additional dilution of the share float.

Which is why I've always liked the Company's decision, to go the IP sale route.

It hasn't gone nearly as nicely, as planned, but we do have Renesas and MegaChips (and associated sub licencees).

I think the Company's main focus, will remain on IP sales and I think we'll get more soon.
Additional smaller revenue streams, like VVDN, are more designed to kick start this Behemoth into motion, than a true change in direction, in my opinion..

 

[Damo4]

Selling physical chips requires huge capital outlay, in the 10s of millions of dollars (at scale).

Capital we simply do not have, without huge additional dilution of the share float.

Which is why I've always liked the Company's decision, to go the IP sale route.

It hasn't gone nearly as nicely, as planned, but we do have Renesas and MegaChips (and associated sub licencees).

I think the Company's main focus, will remain on IP sales and I think we'll get more soon.
Additional smaller revenue streams, like VVDN, are more designed to kick start this Behemoth into motion, than a true change in direction, in my opinion..

If a customer is willing to pay, they can sell whatever they want IMO.
I think a mix of Chips and IP would be great, I look forward to the day I can buy an Akida dev board for the price of an STM32 board.

 

[Iseki]

Selling physical chips requires huge capital outlay, in the 10s of millions of dollars (at scale).

Capital we simply do not have, without huge additional dilution of the share float.

Which is why I've always liked the Company's decision, to go the IP sale route.

It hasn't gone nearly as nicely, as planned, but we do have Renesas and MegaChips (and associated sub licencees).

I think the Company's main focus, will remain on IP sales and I think we'll get more soon, additional smaller revenue streams, like VVDN, are more designed to kick start this Behemoth into motion, in my opinion..

Good points. By why would anyone else spend 10s of millions of dollars developing a chip that relies on someone else's IP?

Renesas and MegaChips do not, I repeat do not, have a chip containing Akida IP for sale - if you don't believe me please check their web sites.

Neither Renesas nor MegaChips have made any announcements regarding a possible release date of any such a chip, and I wish the nice folk here would stop posting that they are.

So we're in a bind.

I'd suggest that if we can't afford to produce an MCU containing Akida2, then we sell that IP for $400 mill and move on to develop Akida 3 IP.

 

[HopalongPetrovski]

Selling physical chips requires huge capital outlay, in the 10s of millions of dollars (at scale).

Capital we simply do not have, without huge additional dilution of the share float.

Which is why I've always liked the Company's decision, to go the IP sale route.

It hasn't gone nearly as nicely, as planned, but we do have Renesas and MegaChips (and associated sub licencees).

I think the Company's main focus, will remain on IP sales and I think we'll get more soon.
Additional smaller revenue streams, like VVDN, are more designed to kick start this Behemoth into motion, than a true change in direction, in my opinion..

"I think the Company's main focus, will remain on IP sales and I think we'll get more soon.
Additional smaller revenue streams, like VVDN, are more designed to kick start this Behemoth into motion, than a true change in direction, in my opinion.."

Sometimes, it takes a few false starts and extra tries to get the bastard ticking over.

Hang in there Brothers and Sisters.
We've been put thru the wringer, but our time will come.

 

[Damo4]

Good points. By why would anyone else spend 10s of millions of dollars developing a chip that relies on someone else's IP?

Not sure if I've misunderstood your question, or if it's just bait, but:
The same reason Brainchip developed Akida using Arm IP?
Why re-invent the wheel when you can pay a small amount to have it on a silver platter with support.
Not to mention people can't just "develop" their own Akida, due to the patents and many years required to get even a resemblance of a SNN.

I'd suggest that if we can't afford to produce an MCU containing Akida2, then we sell that IP for $400 mill and move on to develop Akida 3 IP.

Not sure where you are pulling these numbers from, but $400m in IP for AKD2 alone is more than our current MC...

 

[DK6161]

So we are 6% down. Again and again. I know it sounding like an echo chamber, but it is hard to be excited when we are getting smashed and head into single digit cents.

Good points. By why would anyone else spend 10s of millions of dollars developing a chip that relies on someone else's IP?

Renesas and MegaChips do not, I repeat do not, have a chip containing Akida IP for sale - if you don't believe me please check their web sites.

Neither Renesas nor MegaChips have made any announcements regarding a possible release date of any such a chip, and I wish the nice folk here would stop posting that they are.

So we're in a bind.

I'd suggest that if we can't afford to produce an MCU containing Akida2, then we sell that IP for $400 mill and move on to develop Akida 3 IP.

My other concern is that the SP is so bloody low and there is no interest from other established companies to take over. If we are leading the industry and are due for explosive sales anytime soon, then why aren't there any interests? Our market cap has been reduced so much, that it is basically pocket change to some of these bigger players. Why bother spending more money on researching and developing better tech, when you can just buy out your competitor?

 

[DingoBorat]

"I think the Company's main focus, will remain on IP sales and I think we'll get more soon.
Additional smaller revenue streams, like VVDN, are more designed to kick start this Behemoth into motion, than a true change in direction, in my opinion.."

Sometimes, it takes a few false starts and extra tries to get the bastard ticking over.

Hang in there Brothers and Sisters.
We've been put thru the wringer, but our time will come.

Well hopefully we won't be like the Hughes H-4 Hercules, the "Spruce Goose" which only flew once..

 

[jtardif999]

Sad.
They tell us sales traction will start with the release of AKIDA 2.
Clearly it didn't because -
now we're back trying to flog the remaining AKIDA 1000, all 6900 of the ones we have left -
in a box we have to co-develop with VVDN.

When Sean can on board he told of the story of Betamax vs VHS. And we have come out as Betamax - a great technology but everyone else is signing up with NVIDIA.

The board's pride is causing our fall.

Here's an idea - let's find someone to co-develop the Akida2000 chip.

Could it be that there’s a bit of upbeat about the place - Akida1500 and VVDN and you just felt you had to bring things down a notch or two? Soak up a bit of the positive vibe and contribute in a positive way if you truely want to see this company as successful.

 

[Iseki]

So we are 6% down. Again and again. I know it sounding like an echo chamber, but it is hard to be excited when we are getting smashed and head into single digit cents.

My other concern is that the SP is so bloody low and there is no interest from other established companies to take over. If we are leading the industry and are due for explosive sales anytime soon, then why aren't there any interests? Our market cap has been reduced so much, that it is basically pocket change to some of these bigger players. Why bother spending more money on researching and developing better tech, when you can just buy out your competitor?

I can only guess that we have always maintained that a buy in from a major chip maker was something that we would not consider. ie we wouldn't be a friendly target, and that future development to Akida3 and beyond would not be happening.

Given the current SP and where it is hard to see a path forward to being a major player in our own right, I feel that the board should canvass the idea of a buy-in or merger, and see if there are any offers out there and what the T's and C's might be. It doesn't hurt to find out and some co-development possibility might come out of the woodwork. It would be an optional path forward.

 

[DingoBorat]

Could it be that there’s a bit of upbeat about the place - Akida1500 and VVDN and you just felt you had to bring things down a notch or two? Soak up a bit of the positive vibe and contribute in a positive way if you truely want to see this company as successful.

 

[Iseki]

Could it be that there’s a bit of upbeat about the place - Akida1500 and VVDN and you just felt you had to bring things down a notch or two? Soak up a bit of the positive vibe and contribute in a positive way if you truely want to see this company as successful.

No. It's hard to see a path forward. Perhaps the only way is with an established partner. Why not find out if that is an option?

Otherwise please give me your path forward for the company, given that the only way we can make enough revenue, using the IP model, is to sell many MCU's returning a few dollars each.

We started off with a dream that Akida would be everywhere. Show us where to start.

 

[DK6161]

I can only guess that we have always maintained that a buy in from a major chip maker was something that we would not consider. ie we wouldn't be a friendly target, and that future development to Akida3 and beyond would not be happening.

Given the current SP and where it is hard to see a path forward to being a major player in our own right, I feel that the board should canvass the idea of a buy-in or merger, and see if there are any offers out there and what the T's and C's might be. It doesn't hurt to find out and some co-development possibility might come out of the woodwork. It would be an optional path forward.

So we are shifting our focus on Akida 3.0 now?.
What happened to all the fanboys saying 2.0 is a game changer. The excitement seems to dissipate now.

 

[Diogenese]

Selling physical chips requires huge capital outlay, in the 10s of millions of dollars (at scale).

Capital we simply do not have, without huge additional dilution of the share float.

Which is why I've always liked the Company's decision, to go the IP sale route.

It hasn't gone nearly as nicely, as planned, but we do have Renesas and MegaChips (and associated sub licencees).

I think the Company's main focus, will remain on IP sales and I think we'll get more soon.
Additional smaller revenue streams, like VVDN, are more designed to kick start this Behemoth into motion, than a true change in direction, in my opinion..

Hi DB,

Given TSMC already have the tapeout, the cost would only be the production run plus testing and packaging. Still a big cost, but with a guaranteed market, it should be manageable.

Good points. By why would anyone else spend 10s of millions of dollars developing a chip that relies on someone else's IP?

Renesas and MegaChips do not, I repeat do not, have a chip containing Akida IP for sale - if you don't believe me please check their web sites.

Neither Renesas nor MegaChips have made any announcements regarding a possible release date of any such a chip, and I wish the nice folk here would stop posting that they are.

So we're in a bind.

I'd suggest that if we can't afford to produce an MCU containing Akida2, then we sell that IP for $400 mill and move on to develop Akida 3 IP.

Shouldn't be hard to find a buyer for Akida 2 IP at $400M.

Akida 2 is based in part on Akida 1.

But Akida 3 will probably be based at least in part on Akida 2, so if we sell the Akida 2 IP, we're stymied from developing Akida 3.

 

[Frank Zappa]

not sure about the library part, too technical for me.

regarding to Tony's comment on revenue style with VVDN, although he did not mention in the email, but it seems (just my own speculation) to me any partners who are co-developing products with Brainchip will be buying Akida 1000 or 1500 chips from us.

then I start to think about:
ANT61 is launch their product powered by akida in Jan 2024.
Teksun is working on the next-generation AIoT devices powered by akida
Circle8 Clean Technologies and AVID Group to develop “Smart Bins" powered by akida
GMAC Intelligence is building a drive-through automation solution for quick-service restaurants (QSRs) powered by akida
Lorser Industries said they will use BrainChip’s Akida™ technology to deliver neuromorphic computing solutions for software- defined radio (SDR) devices.

and many more announced development partnership...

I hope the management could put all these partner names into the presentation slides next time, and group them into IP licence customers and Chip sales customers. there is no reason why we cannot show off these names publicly as much as we have already did in news published here and there.

I personally do not believe majority of australian investors understood anymore than 30% of what Brainchip has accomplished in the past two years and why these achievement will lead to revenue surge in the very near future.

If that’s what you think of us Australian investors then I will refrain from what I would like to post about my thoughts of you . If I do , I’ll be flicked off this forum quicker than a rat up a drain pipe . I don’t want that , as there are quality posters here whom I value . You are certainly not one of them .

 

[Pom down under]

Has this been posted before? as I remember I posted one back in either 2021 or 2022 and now it’s 2023

https://s27.q4cdn.com/906368049/files/News/2023/Zacks_SCR_Research_04182023_BRCHF_Lantier.pdf

 

[Calsco]

I was reading Markus Schäfers LinkedIn and he posted about the new CLA class. In the post he says

“To stress the central role played by MB.OS on the Concept CLA Class, the interior of the car showcases one of its many hardware components, which is the high-performance, water-cooled chip. This helps equip every vehicle built on the MMA platform with supercomputer brainpower, using AI and machine learning to deliver a level of personalisation previously unheard of in this class of vehicle.

One example is the unique UI/UX. It can pair the advanced three-display MBUX Superscreen with ambient light and sound to provide an immersive luxury experience, tailored not only to the car but also the customer’s individual preferences. Another is the real-time graphics that are powered by next-level game engine technology, just like in the #VISIONEQXX.”

We know we are in the EQXX so fingers crossed we are in the new CLA.

 

[Easytiger]

it seems that we have a good chance to start the 2nd revenue stream - sales of physical chips if VVDN is on track to start presale of the Edge box powered by akida1000. it seem quite a few partners are going to pay Brainchip by purchase the chips directly.

how so?

 

[jtardif999]

If that’s what you think of us Australian investors then I will refrain from what I would like to post about my thoughts of you . If I do , I’ll be flicked off this forum quicker than a rat up a drain pipe . I don’t want that , as there are quality posters here whom I value . You are certainly not one of them .

@Frank Zappa was this meant for @stan9614 ?