AVZ Discussion 2022

[Samus]

#RDC In what Kinshasa describes as a "debacle" of the Chinese contract, Jean-Claude Mputu of "Congo is not for sale" also pinpoints @GuyLoando_ among the "beneficiaries" of "diversion" of several million USD intended for infrastructure.

 

[BEISHA]

What I cannot understand is why AVZ has to bend over backwards for corrupt scum bags that have caused the shit show. In my view AVZ as 75% majority owner be given the ML and start building the mine as per FT aspirations. Whilst the mine is being built, the scum bags, Commierie Zingin and MMCS can sort the shit show they created. Cong has no leg to stand and has no place in the venture. DRC govt needs to wake up and get this project moving, the crap can be sorted in the background.

Theoretically you are absolutely spot on...........but we are dealing with the corrupt DRC and the corrupt chinese actors and rule of law doesnt apply it appears.....

I tell you what, they used to describe WA as the " wild , wild west "........well , how does one describe the DRC ?

 

[DoubleA]

AVZ needs to retain 51% majority JV control….so they won’t agree to finalise the 24% to CATH until they have full and final court decision on 75% ownership. As it stands 60% is undisputed so max they would agree to sell to CATH until highest court confirms the 75% is a sale of 9% to CATH. And we are told CATH are good with that as their main requirement is guaranteed Offtake. My opinion is if that’s the case do a Offtake Prepayment Agreement and take the ownership out of the transaction and proceed with guaranteed funding based on Offtake.

I am well aware of that. It would be a risk I would be tempted to take with the information I have.

Is there a chance AVZ could end up with less than 50% doing this? Yes.

We have good legal title to 75% and first right of refusal to Cominiere's share. For us to go under 50% we would have to lose to Dathomir AND Zijin. It is possible that this could happen in the DRC due to the corruption, but we would be well financed to continue operations and defend these challenges for years with the $240 million. Don't forget that if we continue to fuck around for years on end and run out of money, there is a real risk that we could lose the whole project.

1. The $240 million gives us time/options and prevents the Chinese from being able to easily wait until we run out of money (one of the possibilities that scares me most).

2. Having CATH invest $240 million means it is not only little AVZ who has a lot to lose if the project goes south. CATH are more powerful and have more influence than AVZ. I believe CATH met with the President at one stage. To me it is not only spreading the risk, but also decreasing it due to this increased power/influence.

3. The risk of AVZ going to under 50% control of Dathcom is a possibility, but it is not the worst possibility out there. I would much prefer to risk this than risk losing the project. The Chinese would build the mine quick and get things operational in record time. They would probably fuck around with transfer pricing etc, so we would not receive full value, but shareholders would likely still do well.

I look at examples like Komoa:

a joint venture between Ivanhoe Mines (39.6%), Zijin Mining Group (39.6%), Crystal River Global Limited (0.8%) and the Government of the Democratic Republic of Congo (20%)

Not ideal, but not the worst outcome.

AVZ has been suspended for almost a year. I want to get things moving.

 

[Winenut]

When is the best time for squid normally off that jetty? dusk / dawn or all day round?

Can meet you there sometime to discuss AVZ if you want, and catch a squid or two.

Dawn and dusk, still clear water, summer and all the other best case scenarios

The other half was walking the dog for an hour on the beach.....I took whatever opportunity there was for the hell of it to see if I could catch dinner

Vietnamese style squid with chilli, ginger, shallots plus a touch of chinese 5 spice would have on the menu but alas.......it was 10:30am and low tide!

Will shout out next time we're heading down......

Probably tomorrow if it's sunny, the winds offshore and the sea glassy

 

[Roon]

Loving JAG's work on the bird right now - spreading positive news about the company's stance on socio-economic development, ethics, anti-corruption etc.

 

[pow4ade]

I have noticed that Jules posts this sort of rallying cry post quite often, but then when someone tries to engage him with the underlying truth of his apparent post-reporting impotence, he does not comment.

Pretty sure that Jules has already explained that the judical process, or next step, in prosecuting his report was beyond his brief of investigation. That it was up to FT now to follow thru, who in turn had been waiting to install a new batch of judges before proceeding.

From memory those judges are now in place yet still we wait for the legal action recommended in the IGF report. My take since is that FT was then waiting to install his new cabinet which has been tasked with further investigating the corruption around DRC mining.

It all sounds like delaying tactics on FTs part IMO but as far as Jules is concerned his job is done. Fair enough, too, he's done good.

 

[Doc]

I am well aware of that. It would be a risk I would be tempted to take with the information I have.

Is there a chance AVZ could end up with less than 50% doing this? Yes.

We have good legal title to 75% and first right of refusal to Cominiere's share. For us to go under 50% we would have to lose to Dathomir AND Zijin. It is possible that this could happen in the DRC due to the corruption, but we would be well financed to continue operations and defend these challenges for years with the $240 million. Don't forget that if we continue to fuck around for years on end and run out of money, there is a real risk that we could lose the whole project.

1. The $240 million gives us time/options and prevents the Chinese from being able to easily wait until we run out of money (one of the possibilities that scares me most).

2. Having CATH invest $240 million means it is not only little AVZ who has a lot to lose if the project goes south. CATH are more powerful and have more influence than AVZ. I believe CATH met with the President at one stage. To me it is not only spreading the risk, but also decreasing it due to this increased power/influence.

3. The risk of AVZ going to under 50% control of Dathcom is a possibility, but it is not the worst possibility out there. I would much prefer to risk this than risk losing the project. The Chinese would build the mine quick and get things operational in record time. They would probably fuck around with transfer pricing etc, so we would not receive full value, but shareholders would likely still do well.

I look at examples like Komoa:

a joint venture between Ivanhoe Mines (39.6%), Zijin Mining Group (39.6%), Crystal River Global Limited (0.8%) and the Government of the Democratic Republic of Congo (20%)

Not ideal, but not the worst outcome.

AVZ has been suspended for almost a year. I want to get things moving.

“1. The $240 million gives us time/options and prevents the Chinese from being able to easily wait until we run out of money (one of the possibilities that scares me most).”

CATH is Chinese. It’s long been said that the Gov in China have givens directives that Chinese companies are not to compete with each other to drive prices up.
Not sure we should be totally separating the likes of Zijin and CATH. They playing for the same team after all.
And someone is leaking info…

 

[Underwaterdark]

Sutble ties to Ford Motor Company now for us, via Yibin Tianyi...

"On March 31, Tianhua New Energy announced that the company's subsidiaries, Yibin Tianyi Lithium Technology Innovation Co., Ltd. ("Tianyi Lithium"), Sichuan Tianhua Times Lithium Energy Co., Ltd. ") (Tianyi Lithium Industry and Sichuan Tianhua hereinafter collectively referred to as the "Seller") signed the "Lithium Hydroxide Purchase Agreement" with Ford Motor Company (Ford Motor). The purchase and sale of lithium oxide products reached a consensus and established a cooperative relationship. The total quantity of lithium hydroxide sold by the seller from 2025 to 2029 is 72500±10% metric tons in total. The specific supply quantity is subject to the purchase order signed by both parties.

It is understood that, in addition to Ford Motor, Tianhua New Energy has cooperated with Brazil's AMG Mining Company, Dathcom Mining SA and AVZ International Pty, Aisika New Energy (Shanghai) Co., Ltd., Chengdu Bamo Technology Co., Ltd., a certain company in the past three years. World-renowned automobile companies have signed relevant framework agreements and are implementing them."

 

[Rambo]

I hope it’s for printing lies about avz.

 

[obe wan]

I am well aware of that. It would be a risk I would be tempted to take with the information I have.

Is there a chance AVZ could end up with less than 50% doing this? Yes.

We have good legal title to 75% and first right of refusal to Cominiere's share. For us to go under 50% we would have to lose to Dathomir AND Zijin. It is possible that this could happen in the DRC due to the corruption, but we would be well financed to continue operations and defend these challenges for years with the $240 million. Don't forget that if we continue to fuck around for years on end and run out of money, there is a real risk that we could lose the whole project.

1. The $240 million gives us time/options and prevents the Chinese from being able to easily wait until we run out of money (one of the possibilities that scares me most).

2. Having CATH invest $240 million means it is not only little AVZ who has a lot to lose if the project goes south. CATH are more powerful and have more influence than AVZ. I believe CATH met with the President at one stage. To me it is not only spreading the risk, but also decreasing it due to this increased power/influence.

3. The risk of AVZ going to under 50% control of Dathcom is a possibility, but it is not the worst possibility out there. I would much prefer to risk this than risk losing the project. The Chinese would build the mine quick and get things operational in record time. They would probably fuck around with transfer pricing etc, so we would not receive full value, but shareholders would likely still do well.

I look at examples like Komoa:

a joint venture between Ivanhoe Mines (39.6%), Zijin Mining Group (39.6%), Crystal River Global Limited (0.8%) and the Government of the Democratic Republic of Congo (20%)

Not ideal, but not the worst outcome.

AVZ has been suspended for almost a year. I want to get things moving.

The intent of that $240m is that it gets buried into initial mining development cost ( it's not keep the lights on $$$) , so in the mine development sector, that $240m gets evaporated within months not years and we certainly would not be, as you say -

‘we would be well financed to continue operations and defend these challenges for years with the $240 million’

Komoa mine was held under Komoa Holdings a subsidiary of Ivanhoe ; Komoa Holdings held ‘80%’ of the Komoa project; Ivanhoe then sold 49.5% of Komoa Holdings off to Zijin for 400/500m.

Hand passing CATH 24% thus reducing us to 51%, with the Dathomir 15% still on the DRC registration books ( unresolved ) ; in the DRC....36% becomes a possible highlight figure ; i know you reckon you’d take the risk..but without drilling too far down into possibilities / scenarios , just take the percentages and names above... 24% CATH...Dathomir get through the door with their 15%; this takes AVZ to 36%.... Dathomir have zero intent in Inputting capital funds in Manono..they will offload..Dathomir sells 15% to CATH ; CATH now have 39%, AVZ loses control.

IMO until things are further resolved, I doubt management are going to play Russian roullet in that dark Chinese alley

 

[Samus]

Oh I see. This case is giving us headaches in the industry, we are working to get it resolved quickly, preferably amicably, by favoring dialogue between all the stakeholders, it will trigger other similar investments in the sector.

 

[cruiser51]

I hope it’s for printing lies about avz.

Maïss Tshibangu was arrested for hanging around the Fleuve Congo Hotel dressed like a pimp selling his services.

 

[Bin59]

 

[MoneyBags1348]

Oh I see. This case is giving us headaches in the industry, we are working to get it resolved quickly, preferably amicably, by favoring dialogue between all the stakeholders, it will trigger other similar investments in the sector.

He mentions we don’t understand the processes of mining in Africa…. Trouble is we do, we have learned the hard way and if we hadn’t been exposing it on here and twitter and and spreading the truth about AVZ being usurped by ministers and officials in the DRC working with Zigin, Cong and Klaus Jerkof we might not have been still in the fight.

We know Tshisekedi, Lukonde, Kazadi, Kayinda, N’samba, Loando etc have known about our situation and the IGF report for months and what is their response…. We want AVZ to sit down with Cominiere, Cong and Zigin and reach an amicable agreement (including being amicable with Celestin Kibeya)…. Oh, and the DRC wants a bigger share now than you have spent millions drilling and progressing the project for the last six years.

Keeping putting the truth out there respectfully has been our greatest strength, I personally don’t think we should stop now, it’s the pressure of the truth that motivates the DRC to do the right thing, not staying quiet

@obe wan I haven’t gone back over our original CATH TIA, but I remember at the time thinking that the agreement meant who ever pulled out of it had to stump up $20 million and that wasn’t reliant on a further signing of a contract

 

[Frank]

I hope it’s for printing lies about avz.

 

[Frank]

Wowwwww, this whole time most of us have imagined CATL as the respectful saving grace that will do nothing but brilliant things. Imagine if they have been feeding info to Zijin...


@JAG doing some lovely work over on the bird at the moment

*Someone buy this Bloke a Beer, an Easter Egg and a Bunny, plus a Hot Cross Bun for his tummy for all the hard work on Twitter

Love your work JAG - much appreciated

Cheers

Frank & Bugs Bunny

 

[wombat74]

CCK was bitching about AVZ doing business with Cath in the interview . From memory he said he blocked it from going ahead . The guy was full of sh1t so maybe he was just chest beating . Either way , if Cath are out surely we have had other offers to get on board .

 

[Bray]

The people of DRC are impressed by their president

 

[MoneyBags1348]

He mentions we don’t understand the processes of mining in Africa…. Trouble is we do, we have learned the hard way and if we hadn’t been exposing it on here and twitter and and spreading the truth about AVZ being usurped by ministers and officials in the DRC working with Zigin, Cong and Klaus Jerkof we might not have been still in the fight.

We know Tshisekedi, Lukonde, Kazadi, Kayinda, N’samba, Loando etc have known about our situation and the IGF report for months and what is their response…. We want AVZ to sit down with Cominiere, Cong and Zigin and reach an amicable agreement (including being amicable with Celestin Kibeya)…. Oh, and the DRC wants a bigger share now than you have spent millions drilling and progressing the project for the last six years.

Keeping putting the truth out there respectfully has been our greatest strength, I personally don’t think we should stop now, it’s the pressure of the truth that motivates the DRC to do the right thing, not staying quiet

@obe wan I haven’t gone back over our original CATH TIA, but I remember at the time thinking that the agreement meant who ever pulled out of it had to stump up $20 million and that wasn’t reliant on a further signing of a contract

@obe wan I just had a read of the CATH TIA. It’s a little hard to work out the exact terms because it says both parties did enter into the agreement

One thing is for sure when you read this announcement…. The project had so much promise under this agreement that the DRC government has made a massive fuck up by allowing Cominiere to undermine this project by illegally selling 15% of the project to Zigin.

Worse for us is the fact that if the CATH TIA had been completed and we had been in the construction phase, our share price would already by over $3. Absolute fucken corruption and incompetence has fucked this up for us and the DRC

 

[Azzler]

🫨

Didn't Twiggy just meet the DRC president last month?
Didn't we recently hear from somewhere that FMG wanted the monono licence?
Isn't FMG loaded with cash?

🫨