AVZ Discussion 2022

[Hudnut]

I think part of the "path to ML" in the MOU is negotiations re: who owns what and relevant compensations, given that Cominere seem to have illegally sold interests all over the place. To stop the back and forth and getting bogged down in courts while companies try to recover something from the wreckage of their fuckups due to lack of due diligence. The negotiation will need to address these issues and also work out who gets slapped, who gets thrown under the bus, and who gets to save face.

 

[Hudnut]

Otherwise the path to ML is already defined. It's the mining code.

 

[Hodlandwin69]

The reality is AVZ will not get 75% ->90%, they will need to concede something. DRC knows ICSID is not good for either parties and I guess they're negotiating what AVZ is willing to cede, whether that's % ownership or something else.
DYOR IMO

 

[Winenut]

"The tale of AVZ"...... (Part 1)


Once upon a time AVZ aquired a majority share interest in Dathcom

WOW!!!......let's go mining!

Some even prepared new clothes and adornments

Then a green witch appeared

and things started to go wrong

another bad actor entered the scene....or more accurately never left it

and really messed things up...

to be continued......

 

[wombat74]

The complaints submitted to the ICC and ICSID underscore the extensive corruption challenges that mining companies and other entities frequently encounter when dealing with the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC).

While it is widely understood from intuition and experience, the process of prosecution within the International Community serves to authenticate and document all proceedings. Similar to the CCP, adverse findings are met with resistance. A pertinent instance is Australia's formal grievances against China lodged with the WTO concerning illicit tariffs. Both parties are well aware that the primary aim of these tariffs was to inflict substantial harm on the Australian economy. China is actively pursuing avenues for resolution before any formal WTO ruling is issued in my opinion so that there are no adverse findings.

Consequently, the initiatives by the ICC and ICSID hold significant value as they are anticipated to accelerate the processing of the Mining License.

I hold great admiration for the resilience and discretion exhibited by the AVZ Board in their approach. Their cautious strategy in handling sensitive information is commendable. While certain parties may prefer the Board to adopt a more informal approach akin to a chat forum when making announcements on the ASX, it is reassuring that they have maintained a professional stance.

"I hold great admiration for the resilience and discretion exhibited by the AVZ Board in their approach. Their cautious strategy in handling sensitive information is commendable".

Did we get the ML already ? I must have missed it . Better to remain silent than to repeatedly tell SH that we are pushing sh1t uphill.

 

[Cumquat Cap]

I think management have done a good job in certain respects as mentioned by SilentOne. But on the other hand, at their paygrade they have achieved nothing which corresponds to balance sheet growth for investors which is a key function of their role. I want the fkn ML before they get a pat on the back from me. Tick tock Nigel, time to execute all this stuff you've been saying for 2 + years

 

[SilentOne]

"I hold great admiration for the resilience and discretion exhibited by the AVZ Board in their approach. Their cautious strategy in handling sensitive information is commendable".

Did we get the ML already ? I must have missed it . Better to remain silent than to repeatedly tell SH that we are pushing sh1t uphill.

Wombat we are still in the game - I think with all the shenanigans that has been going on that the Board has done an exemplary job.

I am intrigued; if you were sitting on the Board what your strategy would be.

SilentOne

 

[Winenut]

"The tale of AVZ"...... (Part 2)

later a bad actor tried to renege on their deal

but AVZ said "no the deal is done you should have used a better calculator"........

the bad actor was not happy

Then more shitfuckery emerged....

Another bad actor tried to sell a 15% interest in Dathcom for a pittance and a bunch of tasty snacks

AVZ shareholders were outraged.....

there were scenes and confrontations at the AGM in 2022

AVZ shareholders wanted answers......but they didn't really get much

a man called Felix promised to help the DRC and Manono

people thought the good guys had arrived

Many thought the mining licence was "imminent"

to be continued......

 

[JNRB]

Im sorry but why do AVZ need to concede something?

I should say, something more - we've already had to concede 18 months of wasted time.

ICSID is the best step AVZ has taken in this whole debacle. It's bad that it had to happen, but it's a good thing for us that it is.

IMO Anything we relinquish won't just be 'ceded' in order to get the ML which is due to us anyway, it will only happen as part of a bigger deal that offers us something else eg SEZ sweeteners

 

[Hodlandwin69]

Im sorry but why do AVZ need to concede something?

I should say, something more - we've already had to concede 18 months of wasted time.

ICSID is the best step AVZ has taken in this whole debacle. It's bad that it had to happen, but it's a good thing for us that it is.

IMO Anything we relinquish won't just be 'ceded' in order to get the ML which is due to us anyway, it will only happen as part of a bigger deal that offers us something else eg SEZ sweetener

They don't have to, and they can go to ICSID but that route is no gaurentee fof reward for shareholders, and a long timeline with lots of legal costs. Balancing conceding with how much ICSID case is worth is something to maximise shareholder value because at the end of the day the DRC does not have to abide by its laws because holding them to account is obviously difficult to do.

I would very much like as much money as I can get, and unfortunately I think that means coming to the table to figure out the best way to maximise shareholder value which happens to include concessions.
All IMO

 

[antimatter]

"The tale AVZ"...... (Part 2)

later a bad actor tried to renege on their deal

View attachment 47155


but AVZ said "no the deal is done you should have used a better calculator"........

the bad actor was not happy

View attachment 47158

Then more shitfuckery emerged....

Another bad actor tried to sell a 15% interest in Dathcom for a pittance and a bunch of tasty snacks

View attachment 47165


AVZ shareholders were outraged.....

View attachment 47166

there were scenes and confrontations at the AGM in 2022

View attachment 47161

AVZ shareholders wanted answers......but they didn't really get much

View attachment 47162

a man called Felix promised to help the DRC and Manono

View attachment 47163

people thought the good guys had arrived

View attachment 47164


Many thought the mining licence was "imminent"

View attachment 47167

to be continued......

I hope Part 3 will involve the walk of shame for ZJ, CKK and MMGA

 

[Roon]

Im sorry but why do AVZ need to concede something?

I should say, something more - we've already had to concede 18 months of wasted time.

ICSID is the best step AVZ has taken in this whole debacle. It's bad that it had to happen, but it's a good thing for us that it is.

IMO Anything we relinquish won't just be 'ceded' in order to get the ML which is due to us anyway, it will only happen as part of a bigger deal that offers us something else eg SEZ sweeteners

All well and good to say that, should we be in a business climate that works according to the law and regulations. However we aren't. If we don't negotiate we may lose everything, and then we really will need to take the ICSID process to its full conclusion. And there's no guarantee of a successful outcome there, though there is a guarantee that it probably takes 5+ years to reach an award which may never be delivered. The ML might well be 'due to us' according to law and the mining code but how well has that worked to date? Weve been stripped of our decree for clearly bogus reasons. Sometimes we need to wake up and look realistically at the situation on the ground. Even that we need an MoU now to show a 'pathway towards issuance of a ML' clearly suggests that just remaining intransigent isn't going to work as a viable strategy towards getting our title.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Wombat we are still in the game - I think with all the shenanigans that has been going on that the Board has done an exemplary job.

I am intrigued; if you were sitting on the Board what your strategy would be.

@wombat74 has been pretty consistent for years now about what his strategy would be

 

[Mr Inappropriate]

They don't have to, and they can go to ICSID but that route is no gaurentee fof reward for shareholders, and a long timeline with lots of legal costs. Balancing conceding with how much ICSID case is worth is something to maximise shareholder value because at the end of the day the DRC does not have to abide by its laws because holding them to account is obviously difficult to do.

I would very much like as much money as I can get, and unfortunately I think that means coming to the table to figure out the best way to maximise shareholder value which happens to include concessions.
All IMO

What if you could have $x now or three times that number in a year? What choice might you make?

Personally, I’ll take the latter.

 

[Pokok]

What if you could have $x now or three times that number in a year? What choice might you make?

Personally, I’ll take the latter.

What are the x dollars now and what in a year if any in a year that is the question , I do not want to read about easter eggs again

 

[BRICK]

What if you could have $x now or three times that number in a year? What choice might you make?

Personally, I’ll take the latter.

Man, ive been in here since 2017. Ill wait another fucking 5 years if need be

 

[Hudnut]

Everyone's risk profile and investment profile is different.

Personally I'll be taking some off the table to reduce my risk exposure now I'm clearer on how flexible the law is in the DRC.

Gotta learn something from the experience.

 

[BRICK]

Man, ive been in here since 2017. Ill wait another fucking 5 years if need be

Edit, i mean im happy to wait another year to get 3 x

 

[wombat74]

Wombat we are still in the game - I think with all the shenanigans that has been going on that the Board has done an exemplary job.

I am intrigued; if you were sitting on the Board what your strategy would be.

SilentOne

Agree . Nigel and his team doing the best they can under the circumstances . Most of which is out of their control. Ultimately it is hard to judge because we the SH have been given so little information since this all started . Is there another strategy ? Probably not . Flexibility within the strategy . Plan B.

 

[MoneyBags1348]

ICSID is only a real option insofar it being a pressure tool to bring everyone to the negotiating table. It is not at option that will track through to conclusion to an award delivering a mining title, just potentially a cash award that we will likely never collect on in any case. So no, don't see this as a 'real' option beyond its use as leverage. However it is very useful in this regard, and had clearly had an impact

Maybe a better option than ICSID is to let Felix know that…. If he’s stalling and there was proof, there’s a good chance he might not get funding from the WORLD BANK, IMF and the US.

How long do we have until it’s too late to drop the ICSID arbitration case @Carlos Danger