AVZ Discussion 2022

[Azzler]

Hi Beisha,

I certainly acknowledge the points that you make. But the claims against Dathcom/AVZ were on the face of it appeared to me as being outrageous. At the time I would guess that the Board would have felt that there were no legs on said claims; especially taking into consideration the DRC Laws and the JVA. If I was on the Board I would not have taken them seriously and see them as frivolous and not worth mentioning.

Now it would appear that the DRC are not following their own laws and make shit up as they go. If every rumor and every claim were reported on especially when it would appear that there was no merit to them then the ASX would look like a chat forum.

Forsight is a great thing.

Lets simply focus on the facts that;

1) We are still in the game
2) Waiting on the ICC outcomes/rulings
3) Waiting on the ICSID outcomes/rulings

Taking everything into account my support is fully behind the Board.


Regards,

SilentOne - DYOR

I agree with you mate.

I mean did anyone expect the BoD to make an announcement stating that we might lose our project because the DRC may not follow their laws and china pay bribes?

If anyone truly believes the BoD acted pooly and did not disclose information to shareholders, tell us....
What announce would you have like to have seen that they didnt make?

 

[Carlos Danger]

I’ve never in my life given so much money to someone to have them not tell me what the fuck they are doing with it! What a fucking joke.

Yeah we due some form of announcement.
We have a court case in Perth regarding what?
Court case in DRC regarding what?
We are still waiting for the results from ICC/ICSID ( I can’t remember which now ) that were due in December, what happened to that?
I backed the BoD as I think they are the only way out of this mess but at times I think they taking the piss a little by being in suspension as they can forgo the continuous disclosure rules of ASX imo.
Even if it’s just a brief ann. saying court case for this, court case for that and there’s a delay in judgement because of whatever.
Oh and of course the obligatory we are in high level talks with DRC officials.

I’m sure there will be announcements galore when ICSID/ICC decisions come down. My fear is why are these decisions late, what’s causing the delays? In reality there is not much to report until the rulings are handed down, the Board are waiting for them just like us.
My other fear is, who enforces the rulings should they be in our favour because China have a history of ignoring rulings and doing what they want.
This nightmare is a long way from finishing. A sale is best option and preferably not to Chinese, maybe Saudi??
I just want my money back ( no surprise there, we all do) even take a loss to end this shit show.

Would love to say a lot more but don’t want to give ammo to those that are against us.

We all know what sovereign risk is (and if you dont then thats on you).

Too true, we all knew the sovereign risk with DRC, i for one certainly knew that the Chinese would be shifty but never thought the DRC government / Cominiere would be complicit (aka FT 2019 mandate to quell corruption.).......I can tell ya, i wouldnt have invested in AVZ if Kabila was still president, i would of just traded.

Right up to the ML decree being awarded, all of us thought everything was on the level, but clearly behind the scenes, there were rats plotting our down fall and unfortunately AVZ Bod were aware of a few red flags ( cong / cominiere )but said nothing due to " spurious in nature , without legal effect "

As much as I support our bod, they have dropped the ball and didnt read the signs and hoped it would disappear in the abyss and now have alot of work to do get a favourable result for the biggest losers in this fucked up situation.......the suffering long term shareholders who have outlaid all the dollars and wore the risk

AVZ bod will need a resolution to be found before the next AGM or.......

View attachment 58626

View attachment 58627

just sayin

Hi Beisha,

I certainly acknowledge the points that you make. But the claims against Dathcom/AVZ were on the face of it appeared to me as being outrageous. At the time I would guess that the Board would have felt that there were no legs on said claims; especially taking into consideration the DRC Laws and the JVA. If I was on the Board I would not have taken them seriously and see them as frivolous and not worth mentioning.

Now it would appear that the DRC are not following their own laws and make shit up as they go. If every rumor and every claim were reported on especially when it would appear that there was no merit to them then the ASX would look like a chat forum.

Forsight is a great thing.

Lets simply focus on the facts that;

1) We are still in the game
2) Waiting on the ICC outcomes/rulings
3) Waiting on the ICSID outcomes/rulings

Taking everything into account my support is fully behind the Board.


Regards,

SilentOne - DYOR

It's been 50 days since the ICSID interim orders decision and CAMI still shows Cominiere holding 13359. Without us making significant compromises this won't be resolved with an ML any time soon.

Most likely we will need to go the distance at the ICSID and hope China pays the damages or we can seize enough assets to get our money. At this point anything sooner than a few more years of waiting where we don't get completely rat fucked will be a miracle imo

 

[Bray]

Being told we’re walking into a corrupt shit show that’s going to cause a 2-5 year suspension holding your money at ransom would’ve been a good start

 

[BEISHA]

Hi Beisha,

I certainly acknowledge the points that you make. But the claims against Dathcom/AVZ were on the face of it appeared to me as being outrageous. At the time I would guess that the Board would have felt that there were no legs on said claims; especially taking into consideration the DRC Laws and the JVA. If I was on the Board I would not have taken them seriously and see them as frivolous and not worth mentioning.

Now it would appear that the DRC are not following their own laws and make shit up as they go. If every rumor and every claim were reported on especially when it would appear that there was no merit to them then the ASX would look like a chat forum.

Forsight is a great thing.

Lets simply focus on the facts that;

1) We are still in the game
2) Waiting on the ICC outcomes/rulings
3) Waiting on the ICSID outcomes/rulings

Taking everything into account my support is fully behind the Board.


Regards,

SilentOne - DYOR

You make fair points and i have covered this point to death and wont be doing it again but....

" from any source and of any character "

Its pretty conclusive, AVZ should of informed the market of potential problems in the wind so that a informed decision could of been made by investors based on that information going forward....spurious or not.

Look, it is what it is, I back the BOD to get us out of this fucked up mess big time, the true evil of course is Cominiere / Dathomir / Zijin / FT, but in saying that, if no progress is made regards to binding MOU come next AGM......well lets just say, AVZ BOD will have alot of heat applied to them and question time will be demanded !!

Long term holders life savings on the line, AVZ BOD need to formulate a plan to get Manono into construction / production, will have to compromise, ML for RD and JV CDL will ensure our investment wont get stranded or decimated by any means.

RD alone......... 840m/t from suface, open in all direction, 1.6% grade will still make us all very rich long term, regardless of CDL .

Thats the way i look at it.

 

[JasonM]

It's been 50 days since the ICSID interim orders decision and CAMI still shows Cominiere holding 13359. Without us making significant compromises this won't be resolved with an ML any time soon.

Most likely we will need to go the distance at the ICSID and hope China pays the damages or we can seize enough assets to get our money. At this point anything sooner than a few more years of waiting where we don't get completely rat fucked will be a miracle imo

dont necessarily agree with you there. Have the final government and ministers been appointed? I dont think they have. If theres no one in charge, no decisions can be made I would have thought. hence there is no one there to say change the cami portal. Well at least thats what I hope, we know things dont happen quickly in the drc, so tend to think/hope things are still ticking over but of course thats what I've been thinking for the last 2 years. give us a fucking update nige!!!

 

[Hemicuda]

The ASX Announcements do not operate like a chat forum. We all know what sovereign risk is (and if you dont then thats on you). We also know that things are very fluid at the moment and the Board cannot make announcements unless they are cemented in fact and signed sealed and delivered. Nigel has as I understand it 50,000,000 + shares at risk and so he definitely has skin in the game and would want to maximize value.

We need to wait for the announcements as there is no point in speculating.

The DRC have been known to say one thing and do something else - its a challenge and I wouldnt want to be dealing with the associated stress and dangers that are the DRC.

Oh and by the way, I certainly would have liked to retire now but clearly cant because of our current predicament. The only option we have is to fully support the Board and you all can have your say at the next AGM.

Feel free to nominate yourself for a Board position if you think you have the solutions and answers. You couldnt pay me enough to be dealing with the stress and challenges of the DRC.

Anyway, I am simply waiting for the announcements and I fully support the Board under these exceptionally difficult circumstances.


Regards,

SilentOne - DYOR

"and you all can have your say at the next AGM." priceless

 

[SilentOne]

Being told we’re walking into a corrupt shit show that’s going to cause a 2-5 year suspension holding your money at ransom would’ve been a good start

Bray,

Thats what Sovereign Risk is - just look at the DRC History. Its of no surprise - I am an optimist and will simply wait for the outcomes of both the ICC and ICSID.

Regards,

SilentOne

 

[BEISHA]

I agree with you mate.

I mean did anyone expect the BoD to make an announcement stating that we might lose our project because the DRC may not follow their laws and china pay bribes?

If anyone truly believes the BoD acted pooly and did not disclose information to shareholders, tell us....
What announce would you have like to have seen that they didnt make?

What announce would you have like to have seen that they didnt make?

a) Dathomir share transfer
b) Cominiere / Zijin ROFR

 

[RHyNO]

All valid questions that were cleverly avoided at the agm

They were avoided because of the MMGA hustle.

 

[Carlos Danger]

dont necessarily agree with you there. Have the final government and ministers been appointed? I dont think they have. If theres no one in charge, no decisions can be made I would have thought. hence there is no one there to say change the cami portal. Well at least thats what I hope, we know things dont happen quickly in the drc, so tend to think/hope things are still ticking over but of course thats what I've been thinking for the last 2 years. give us a fucking update nige!!!

Pretty sure Simba could end this shit show with an executive order any time he wanted

But I hope you're right and we get a new MoM that comes in kicking Zijin ass and taking Cominiere names to give AVZ complete control of the most important resource for their battery hub plans despite no judgement being made by the ICSID on the merits of the case until late next year at the earliest.

Let's see what happens. I'll buy you a bottle of champagne if we have an ML before 2026 without giving up at least the north.

 

[cruiser51]

Pretty sure Simba could end this shit show with an executive order any time he wanted

But I hope you're right and we get a new MoM that comes in kicking Zijin ass and taking Cominiere names to give AVZ complete control of the most important resource for their battery hub plans despite no judgement being made by the ICSID on the merits of the case until late next year at the earliest.

Let's see what happens. I'll buy you a bottle of champagne if we have an ML before 2026 without giving up at least the north.

View attachment 58634

I Believe FT is atm a bit like Scomo, the minister of everything.

However, FT is atm in Doha planting trees and drumming up business.
The DRC sees in the Persian Gulf states a large pot of gold ready for the milking, however them Arabs are not that silly.

And China??

African bosses want to see EU strengthen its presence, survey finds​

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Economic leaders in Africa want to see the European Union (EU) strengthen its presence on the continent, far more than China and Russia, according to a survey by the French think tank Choiseul. Of 314 business leaders, heads of foreign subsidiaries or senior executives interviewed, representing 34 nationalities, more than half (53%) cite the EU as the first partner they would like to have by 2050, according to this survey published Tuesday. This is more than three times more than China, which has become a major investor on the continent in recent years (16% of respondents), the United States (11%) and Russia, which only 3 % would like to see foreign partners at the forefront. “African leaders perceive the European desire to be more interested in Africa,” comments the president of the Choiseul Institute, Pascal Lorot.

The EU wants to boost its investments in sectors of the future such as digital technology and energy through the “Global gateway” initiative, particularly in Africa, a European response to the Chinese “New Silk Roads” program. More than half of the leaders questioned in this survey consider the European initiative “promising”. “The Covid has also been there, the war in Ukraine too, and we have seen the weight of dependencies. Today these leaders say that geographical proximity will allow a shortening of flows,” continues Pascal Lorot.

China withdraws from Africa

A competitor to Europe, China is experiencing “a setback” in Africa, the leader also observes. Beijing has notably reduced its loans on the continent in the face of the difficulties of certain countries in repaying them, or even payment defaults like in Zambia. The Chinese presence on the continent is still considered “necessary” by 42% of economic leaders questioned in this survey. Within the EU, Africans especially want to see Germany play a prominent role (69%), ahead of France (61%) and Spain (16%). European investors remain by far the largest holders of foreign direct investment (FDI) stocks in Africa, according to statistics from the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD) for 2022. The United Kingdom (released of the EU in 2021) was in the lead with 60 billion dollars, ahead of France and the Netherlands with 54 billion dollars each.

By Le Figaro with AFP


Fuck China.

 

[Winenut]

It's been 50 days since the ICSID interim orders decision and CAMI still shows Cominiere holding 13359. Without us making significant compromises this won't be resolved with an ML any time soon.

Most likely we will need to go the distance at the ICSID and hope China pays the damages or we can seize enough assets to get our money. At this point anything sooner than a few more years of waiting where we don't get completely rat fucked will be a miracle imo

Well that's depressing.....

I'd better go and have a drink!

 

[Hemicuda]

They were avoided because of the MMGA hustle.

aha

 

[wombat74]

Well that's depressing.....

I'd better go and have a drink!

Don't worry Nigel is doing some serious compromising .

 

[cruiser51]

Well that's depressing.....

I'd better go and have a drink!

Any excuse is an excellent excuse.

 

[Pokok]

They were avoided because of the MMGA hustle.

And if we get to this years AGM without a result question time could be the same if MMGA are still around ,, ohhhh fuck now I need a drink

 

[Remark]

Well that's depressing.....

I'd better go and have a drink!

Way ahead of you!

 

[Deleted member 2378]

It's been 50 days since the ICSID interim orders decision and CAMI still shows Cominiere holding 13359. Without us making significant compromises this won't be resolved with an ML any time soon.

Most likely we will need to go the distance at the ICSID and hope China pays the damages or we can seize enough assets to get our money. At this point anything sooner than a few more years of waiting where we don't get completely rat fucked will be a miracle imo

I fully agree. But the problem is the salaries and legal fees for more years. They don’t respected the ICSID orders, in my opinion Locke will not invest in that shithole. Then we only can relist and crash under a cent or we are not able to continue with the icsid over the full distance. Only Locke, a relist or dust and the rest of the money goes to the bod and lawyers, with the information they did what they can…goodbye. And of course the option a ML. But I guess I will win the lottery before this happens. One way or a other in the next few weeks we know more about the path we are going.

 

[CHB]

I fully agree. But the problem is the salaries and legal fees for more years. They don’t respected the ICSID orders, in my opinion Locke will not invest in that shithole. Then we only can relist and crash under a cent or we are not able to continue with the icsid over the full distance. Only Locke, a relist or dust and the rest of the money goes to the bod and lawyers, with the information they did what they can…goodbye. And of course the option a ML. But I guess I will win the lottery before this happens. One way or a other in the next few weeks we know more about the path we are going.

Good news, we will know within 3 weeks.


....unless there is an extension..

 

[Mute22]

Let's

Good news, we will know within 3 weeks.


....unless there is an extension..

Let's be real, we probably won't.

The optimist inside me says delays in ICSID is because the DRC has begun negotiating in good faith, hence why Comminerie is freaking out on X.

But if I am being honest with myself, my gut says we are just beginning phase 2 of this battle. If you think our enemies don't have plans for each outcome and contingency to protect their interests with much deeper pockets than AVZ you're dreaming.