AVZ Discussion 2022

[Panther22]

Given the latest announcement, I believe this is the current situation.
AVZ have exposed all the corrupt pigs running the DRC and they're just so offended by that they've refused to talk with AVZ.

By the excitement displayed by Kobald, it would appear that the DRC have told them they can have Manono south already.
But with it tied up in the courts by AVZ, there's no way they would or could take on that risk, as well as the reputational damage. They would be complicit in DRC corruption if they pulled a Zijin.

So they have to pay off AVZ.
It looks like there is no relationship or communication between AVZ and DRC.

I think AVZ could reasonably say "nup" untill at least all time high value is offered.

Simply all 3 (AVZ, DRC & Kobold) need to get in a room and thrash it out, nobody leaves until it is done.

 

[Pokok]

My error re the following point ... too many Bingtangs.

"AVZ/DRC ICSID deferment was for 1 month rather than 1 week."

What I was thinking was rather than have the deferral ending one week after 15-Jun, the date on which the peace discussions became serious, it would have been better to specify a deferral end date of at least 1 month from 15-Jun. However, because AVZ/DRC only specified a deferral end date of 23-Jun, the too short deferral has created a problem. However, I am hopeful that the definitive peace agreement will be achieved on 27-Jun, after which this hiccup with the deferral being too short will be a minor incovenience that will be insignificant.

Regarding the following point, I posted a few weeks ago that FT is probably simply keeping his friends close and keeping his enemies closer.

"DRC appointed the ceo of Cominière as one of their advisors for the negotiations of minerals for security deal."

While I am here in Bali I drink Draft Bali Hai less of a hangover , in Legion at the moment if you want a beer

 

[zeeb0t]

@zeeb0t are you happy to allow this new member to advertise on your website? I believe this is the 10th different persona to join this week and then spam.

Of course I am not happy about it. That's why I am removing and banning any of these you tag me on

 

[LOCKY82]

The DRC say they own the rights to Manono . What's stopping them selling Roche Dure to Kobold ? What's stopping Kobold from appropriately compensating AVZ to drop disputes and walk away ? The ball is in Kobold's court . IMO .

There's nothing stopping the DRC trying a lot of the dumb shit they try
I just don't believe anyone will want to pay a bunch conmen billions of dollars for a resource that's ownership rights are very publicly being looked at in international courts.

But who knows, trust no one

$12USD

 

[j.l]

Exactly like that - except with some triumphing quote like "persistence over pain"

P.s. when was this from? My initial investment must've been late to the party.

@PutUsernameHere, I got mine at the March 2020 major shareholders meeting in Perth.

 

[wombat74]

There's nothing stopping the DRC trying a lot of the dumb shit they try
I just don't believe anyone will want to pay a bunch conmen billions of dollars for a resource that's ownership rights are very publicly being looked at in international courts.

But who knows, trust no one

$12USD

AVZ signed an MOU with Kobold to walk away for appropriate compensation. That cannot happen without AVZ dropping legal proceedings .
So we can take Kobold off the squeaky clean list right there . The AVZ /DRC saga wasn't a secret . Kobold thought AVZ was dead in the water when they visited Manono Aug/Sep last year . Kobold were not on holiday sight seeing and stumbled onto the ground of Manono . They had an invite .

 

[LOCKY82]

AVZ signed an MOU with Kobold to walk away for appropriate compensation. That cannot happen without AVZ dropping legal proceedings .
So we can take Kobold off the squeaky clean list right there . The AVZ /DRC saga wasn't a secret . Kobold thought AVZ was dead in the water when they visited Manono Aug/Sep last year . Kobold were not on holiday sight seeing and stumbled onto the ground of Manono . They had an invite .

Not really sure what you're getting at. But yes it's a huge cluster fuck.

 

[Mute22]

Anybody speak French?



Curious what the guy at 2:20 is on about, autotranslate is unreliable.

Not sure if he is just unpacking an article verbatim, or he is giving a local perspective.

 

[Jongo]

While I am here in Bali I drink Draft Bali Hai less of a hangover , in Legion at the moment if you want a beer,

Hi Pokok, I am in Sanur, but I will pass on the beer because with the traffic it would be a bit difficult to get to Legian and back, and besides I am busy with family activities each day.

 

[Mute22]

Anybody speak French?



Curious what the guy at 2:20 is on about, autotranslate is unreliable.

Not sure if he is just unpacking an article verbatim, or he is giving a local perspective.

Here is the original source if that helps:

KALONJI TV

Share your videos with friends, family and the world

www.youtube.com

 

[TheCount]

AVZ signed an MOU with Kobold to walk away for appropriate compensation. That cannot happen without AVZ dropping legal proceedings .
So we can take Kobold off the squeaky clean list right there . The AVZ /DRC saga wasn't a secret . Kobold thought AVZ was dead in the water when they visited Manono Aug/Sep last year . Kobold were not on holiday sight seeing and stumbled onto the ground of Manono . They had an invite .

possibly at the request of our own court jester - which is why they refuse to deal with it now?

 

[Retrobyte]

Nice find @cruiser51 ....great article, everybody should read that

Except there is a zero missing off the 20 year revenue figure. It's not $4bn over 20 years

 

[wombat74]

possibly at the request of our own court jester - which is why they refuse to deal with it now?

View attachment 87602

As part of formal discussions with the Congolese authorities: KOBOLD METALS invited to consult without delay COMINIERE SA, the legitimate holder of the mining titles, and the Mining Cadastre.

KoBold Metals is invited by the competent Congolese authorities to: 1) Suspend all steps, carried out outside the legal framework, relating to the purchase of AVZ's interests; 2) Initiate formal discussions with the competent Congolese authorities, and finally; 3) Consult without delay COMINIÈRE, the legitimate holder of the mining titles, as well as the Mining Cadastre (CAMI).

In its response to the letter, KoBold Metals, which is eyeing AVZ Minerals' commercial interests in the Manono lithium deposit, has fully committed, since May 12, to respecting the laws, regulations and economic sovereignty of the DRC over its soil and subsoil, including the rights to be acquired in the near future.

 

[timb89]

Imo nobody but china will touch roche dure while there are legal ownership disputes

Which should be of major concern to all.

As part of formal discussions with the Congolese authorities: KOBOLD METALS invited to consult without delay COMINIERE SA, the legitimate holder of the mining titles, and the Mining Cadastre.

KoBold Metals is invited by the competent Congolese authorities to: 1) Suspend all steps, carried out outside the legal framework, relating to the purchase of AVZ's interests; 2) Initiate formal discussions with the competent Congolese authorities, and finally; 3) Consult without delay COMINIÈRE, the legitimate holder of the mining titles, as well as the Mining Cadastre (CAMI).

In its response to the letter, KoBold Metals, which is eyeing AVZ Minerals' commercial interests in the Manono lithium deposit, has fully committed, since May 12, to respecting the laws, regulations and economic sovereignty of the DRC over its soil and subsoil, including the rights to be acquired in the near future.

Where's this from?

 

[wombat74]

Where's this from?

Was doing the rounds early this month .The guy who wrote it ,Dieudonne Buanali ,is Kibeya's lackey boy .

Dans le cade des discussions formelles avec les autorités congolaises : KOBOLD METALS invitée à consulter sans délai la COMINIERE SA, légitime titulaire des titres miniers, et le Cadastre Minier

Le Gouvernement de la République Démocratique du Congo (RDC) a été suffisamment informé, par voie de presse et par des communications publiques publiées sur les réseaux sociaux, le 6 mai 2025, de la signature d’un accord préliminaire entre la société KoBold Metals Company, et AVZ Minerals Ltd...

geopolismagazine.org

 

[LOCKY82]

Which should be of major concern to all.


Where's this from?

And concerned we are! That's why we're all in here, in the asylum. The one good thing about rights being in dispute is that it's very off putting for anyone to go near it or deal with drc until there's a resolution.

 

[wombat74]

Here is the original source if that helps:

KALONJI TV

Share your videos with friends, family and the world

www.youtube.com

This dude hiding out in his bedroom getting high on his own supply.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Maybe I've missed something.

Where is this financial claim?

I know the $10 billion has been thrown around forever, but as far as I can see, there is no official reference to a $10 billion damages claim lodged in any publicly available ICSID document or AVZ ASX announcement.

Please correct me.

If somebody has any official document that specifies anything to the above effect please post it. That would be much appreciated. (Dave Evans? He's all over the ICSID case and his preferred course of action was the ICSID route. Maybe he can chime in? or anyone for that matter).

What I can see that AVZ are seeking via ICSID;

• A declaration that AVZ (via Dathcom) holds the legal title to Exploration Permit PR13359 at Manono.
• An order compelling the DRC to issue an exploitation (mining) permit over that area.
• Interim measures to protect these rights, and penalty orders due to non-compliance by the DRC.

The focus of current legal action and arbitration is on restoring mining rights and ownership, not seeking financial damages other than penalties for non compliance.

A "win" will in no way value the resource at 10 billion dollars based on the above.

At the end of the day a deal needs to be done for shareholders to walk away. Before or after arbitration (if it goes the distance). The sooner a deal is done the better in my opinion.

Page 25 @muks mentions penalties of around US$9billion relating to Cominiere so I’m not sure if this is the actual document or source you want.

I do recall AVZ’s compensation from the DRC being between US$8-$10billion but don’t remember the source. Cominiere is 90% owned by the DRC State and the DRC revoked the license through their Mining Ministry and CAMI.

I imagine the compensation of around US$10billion is the amount being claimed by us through DLA Piper

View attachment 87597

But as @Xerof suggested, @Carlos Danger is the best man to ask when it comes to seeking legal information.

So this is where it gets a little tricky - ICC's power over DRC land transfer and ownership rights is 50/50 from what i can tell. But that is up to the arbitrator, if they do not believe the DRC will follow through, then they pretty weak from what i can tell, but ICC and ICSID for that matter will generally rule for monetary damages as remedy.


this relates to my enforcement showerthought. They aren;t losses unless you sell type of deal, until we request to enforce the emergency injunction.

And for monetary penalties, ICC has jurisdiction over 90% of banking institutions, and can block or hold transactions from ZJ to Cominiere, or any other organiztion to Cominiere to recoup damages.

Our main claim at the ICSID is for the the restoration of our rights to the tenement and for the Mining Licence to be granted to Dathcom

As the damages claim in that link says AVZ is seeking $6.2b USD in damages for our 75% holding of Dathcom due to the destruction in value of the Manono project

The $2b USD being claimed for Dathcom is for the 25% belonging to Cominiere

The other $1b USD being claimed for the breach of the FROR of refusal by Cominiere and the $394k USD for legal fees takes it up to around $9.6b USD

There is also an undetermined amount for repetitional damage against Cominiere

It is worth noting this is filed in the ICC case against Cominiere but I’d imagine the claims at the ICSID are based on the same math

Also Zijin and Cominiere's claim for damages at the ICC valued AVZ's 75% at around $4.5b USD from memory

So we are seeking both the restoration of our rights and damages if the rights aren’t going to be restored by the DRC

9card once posted (included in the replies) a guide to this where he said:

‘So this is where it gets a little tricky - ICC's power over DRC land transfer and ownership rights is 50/50 from what i can tell. But that is up to the arbitrator, if they do not believe the DRC will follow through, then they pretty weak from what i can tell, but ICC and ICSID for that matter will generally rule for monetary damages as remedy.’

I remember another post where 9card talked about Fasken trying to get DLA to choose restoration or damages but the ICSID dismissed it

So long story short the ICSID will need to look at the likelihood of the DRC following their orders before deciding what to award us

And given the fact that the DRC haven’t put the south back in our name as ordered by the ICSID in January 2024. Plus have failed to engage with AVZ management during the agreed suspension that should have led to an end to the ICSID case with the sale to KoBold. My bet is we are getting the damages of $6.2b USD plus legal fees imo

 

[muks]

Our main claim at the ICSID is for the the restoration of our rights to the tenement and for the Mining Licence to be granted to Dathcom

As the damages claim in that link says AVZ is seeking $6.2b USD in damages for our 75% holding of Dathcom due to the destruction in value of the Manono project

The $2b USD being claimed for Dathcom is for the 25% belonging to Cominiere

The other $1b USD being claimed for the breach of the FROR of refusal by Cominiere and the $394k USD for legal fees takes it up to around $9.6b USD

There is also an undetermined amount for repetitional damage against Cominiere

It is worth noting this is filed in the ICC case against Cominiere but I’d imagine the claims at the ICSID are based on the same math

Also Zijin and Cominiere's claim for damages at the ICC valued AVZ's 75% at around $4.5b USD from memory

So we are seeking both the restoration of our rights and damages if the rights aren’t going to be restored by the DRC

9card once posted (included in the replies) a guide to this where he said:

‘So this is where it gets a little tricky - ICC's power over DRC land transfer and ownership rights is 50/50 from what i can tell. But that is up to the arbitrator, if they do not believe the DRC will follow through, then they pretty weak from what i can tell, but ICC and ICSID for that matter will generally rule for monetary damages as remedy.’

I remember another post where 9card talked about Fasken trying to get DLA to choose restoration or damages but the ICSID dismissed it

So long story short the ICSID will need to look at the likelihood of the DRC following their orders before deciding what to award us

And given the fact that the DRC haven’t put the south back in our name as ordered by the ICSID in January 2024. Plus have failed to engage with AVZ management during the agreed suspension that should have led to an end to the ICSID case with the sale to KoBold. My bet is we are getting the damages of $6.2b USD plus legal fees imo

Well put together Carlos. Thank you. Also thanks to Dave for pulling up the document referencing the damages claim. That was what I was looking for. I have spent a fair bit of time looking it over now that ICSID is back on the agenda.

As you have said Carlos the DRC have shown no interest in complying with ICSID orders thus far. So it would seem that awarding damages would be the most logical outcome.

How likely is it in your opinion that the arbitrators will adjust our damages claim?

 

[Winenut]

I continue to be in awe and gratitude of the amazingly and diverse group of honest, open, caring, connected, supportive and intelligent AVZ holders and TSE forum participants on this platform

Especially those who share good shit and intel and posts here while at times we all seem to be paddling upstream in a barbed wire/dugout fucking canoe!