AVZ Discussion 2022

[JasonM]

just wondering here. I thought the icisd case that was originally planned to commence on june 23rd was the actual commencement of the court case, was that correct? So they had a one month pause and so it was hands down for everyone and we dont have a new commencement date. so the actual delay by taking the one month pause is months? so agreeing to the delay has actually had a very big impact on the timelines. is my understanding correct?

are we getting fcked over or what.

 

[j.l]

just wondering here. I thought the icisd case that was originally planned to commence on june 23rd was the actual commencement of the court case, was that correct? So they had a one month pause and so it was hands down for everyone and we dont have a new commencement date. so the actual delay by taking the one month pause is months? so agreeing to the delay has actually had a very big impact on the timelines. is my understanding correct?

are we getting fcked over or what.

Yep, that's my take on it. Restart proceedings and incur all the rescheduling delays.

 

[Retrobyte]

just wondering here. I thought the icisd case that was originally planned to commence on june 23rd was the actual commencement of the court case, was that correct? So they had a one month pause and so it was hands down for everyone and we dont have a new commencement date. so the actual delay by taking the one month pause is months? so agreeing to the delay has actually had a very big impact on the timelines. is my understanding correct?

are we getting fcked over or what.

One or both parties need to advise the court what they would like to happen next (eg. continue with proceedings, request a further suspension), and then the court has to find dates in the calendar to resume proceedings.

 

[Panther22]

just wondering here. I thought the icisd case that was originally planned to commence on june 23rd was the actual commencement of the court case, was that correct? So they had a one month pause and so it was hands down for everyone and we dont have a new commencement date. so the actual delay by taking the one month pause is months? so agreeing to the delay has actually had a very big impact on the timelines. is my understanding correct?

are we getting fcked over or what.

I asked the same question on 23rd June but haven’t had an answer. I think it’s imperative we get the hearing underway ASAP, just as important as the ICC win last week. Get all the wins and favourable rulings on our side of the ledger. No more Mr. Niceguy delays.

 

[wombat74]

Yep, that's my take on it. Restart proceedings and incur all the rescheduling delays.

And delays everyone . Not just us . Kobold still silent ?

Which one of the following could be a possibility ?

A: The DRC/China have no intention , never had any intention , of doing a deal with the West for Manono.

B: DRC are holding out for a slice $$$ of the action re AVZ compensation settlement .

C: China want this held up as long as possible so CDL is up and running /shipping before anyone steps foot on Roche Dure .

D: None of the above ?

 

[Winenut]

And delays everyone . Not just us . Kobold still silent ?

Which one of the following could be a possibility ?

A: The DRC/China have no intention , never had any intention , of doing a deal with the West for Manono.

B: DRC are holding out for a slice $$$ of the action re AVZ compensation settlement .

C: China want this held up as long as possible so CDL is up and running /shipping before anyone steps foot on Roche Dure .

D: None of the above ?

E: All of the above

 

[Rechnerhand]

DRC: AFC/M23 demands reciprocal gestures from Kinshasa to move the Doha process forward

 

[Rechnerhand]

news coverage:

Mining Review Africa: ICC decision: AVZ legally acquired Dathomir’s shares

others?

Victory Confirmed: AVZ secures its share of the Manono Project

 

[Flight996]

Anyone else following the Chinese takeover of PEK with interest and a feeling of incredulity?

There seem to be two sets of government policies around FIRB intervention, and inconsistent application of the same national interest rules.

• In 2020, the FIRB blocked Yibin Tianyi’s proposed A$14.1 million investment for an 11.8% stake in AVZ Minerals (ASX-AVZ), citing that it was “contrary to the national interest”. At the time, the FIRB was concerned about significant Chinese influence or control in critical minerals, even when the underlying asset, Manono was outside Australia.

None of us need reminding of the history of subsequent Chinese shitfuckery after that FIRB decision.

• Fast-forward five years, and here we have the same government approving a full Chinese acquisition of Peak Rare Earths (ASX-PEK), which operates a rare earths project in Tanzania. The takeover by Chinese Shenghe Resources was endorsed by PEK’s board and not blocked by FIRB on national interest criteria, despite similar geopolitical sensitivities and monopoly concerns as with the AVZ deal.

It makes me wonder what the federal government is thinking when it displays a clearly inconsistent approach to Chinese investments in Australian companies involved in the extraction and supply of rare earth minerals, which are increasingly being monopolised and weaponised by the Chinese.

Oh, and after two years, still no response from Minister Wong about what, if any assistance her department provided to AVZ in its David vs Golliath fight against the corrupt DRC government and their scheming Chinese masters.

Cheers
F

 

[j.l]

And delays everyone . Not just us . Kobold still silent ?

Which one of the following could be a possibility ?

A: The DRC/China have no intention , never had any intention , of doing a deal with the West for Manono.

B: DRC are holding out for a slice $$$ of the action re AVZ compensation settlement .

C: China want this held up as long as possible so CDL is up and running /shipping before anyone steps foot on Roche Dure .

D: None of the above ?

C & D?

When I think about this in a positive way, AVZ tried to do the right thing: showed positive intent in pausing the proceedings, presumably to comply with a request from the US.

Management had to have known about the impacts on ICSID timing (i.e. the restart delay) of doing so.

Something must have given them the confidentce to risk further delay; they must have been pretty sure that one way or another, the ICSID timing probably wouldn't matter. What would give them that confidence?

(Nevertheless they left open the possibility of seeing ICSID through to the bitter end, just in case.)

---

Or, taking a negative view, they are instead guilty of hubris, over-confidence and not being able to see more than one move ahead in the game.

But for today at least, my glass is half full.

 

[j.l]

Anyone else following the Chinese takeover of PEK with interest and a feeling of incredulity?

There seem to be two sets of government policies around FIRB intervention, and inconsistent application of the same national interest rules.

• In 2020, the FIRB blocked Yibin Tianyi’s proposed A$14.1 million investment for an 11.8% stake in AVZ Minerals (ASX-AVZ), citing that it was “contrary to the national interest”. At the time, the FIRB was concerned about significant Chinese influence or control in critical minerals, even when the underlying asset, Manono was outside Australia.

None of us need reminding of the history of subsequent Chinese shitfuckery after that FIRB decision.

• Fast-forward five years, and here we have the same government approving a full Chinese acquisition of Peak Rare Earths (ASX-PEK), which operates a rare earths project in Tanzania. The takeover by Chinese Shenghe Resources was endorsed by PEK’s board and not blocked by FIRB on national interest criteria, despite similar geopolitical sensitivities and monopoly concerns as with the AVZ deal.

It makes me wonder what the federal government is thinking when it displays a clearly inconsistent approach to Chinese investments in Australian companies involved in the extraction and supply of rare earth minerals, which are increasingly being monopolised and weaponised by the Chinese.

Oh, and after two years, still no response from Minister Wong about what, if any assistance her department provided to AVZ in its David vs Golliath fight against the corrupt DRC government and their scheming Chinese masters.

Cheers
F

Change of government, which restored relations with China perhaps?

 

[Flight996]

Change of government, which restored relations with China perhaps?

Scott Morrison was no Chinese stooge, but I am unsure about Albo and Red Penny.

 

[bloke383]

https://x.com/KiengeKki/status/1942535420182511929

Congolese defense associations and four former directors of Gécamines have filed a complaint against 9 members of the family of the President of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Félix #Tshisekedi, for the plundering of minerals in the provinces of Haut-Katanga and Lualaba, before the Belgian justice system, targeting nine members of the family of the President of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Félix Tshisekedi, for the looting of mining sites in the provinces of Haut-Katanga and Lualaba. These 9 members of the Tshisekedi presidential clan (sister-in-law, son, brothers, cousins, and even the country's first lady), presented as "co-authors and accomplices of acts of corruption" during the plundering of mining sites. The complaint has been submitted to Federal Prosecutor Ann Fransen by lawyers Bernard and Brieuc Maingain. The 9 accused are all Belgian citizens and can be prosecuted by the Belgian justice system. "Other complaints may be filed soon in other countries from which other looters of our wealth originate," explains one of the plaintiffs. Kiki

 

[Hudnut]

Change of government, which restored relations with China perhaps?

In that case, maybe FIRB and the current Aus Government can let Zijin buy AVZ, since Australian/Sino relations are so good?

$12 USD a share seems a fair price.

 

[ptlas]

And delays everyone . Not just us . Kobold still silent ?

Which one of the following could be a possibility ?

A: The DRC/China have no intention , never had any intention , of doing a deal with the West for Manono.

B: DRC are holding out for a slice $$$ of the action re AVZ compensation settlement .

C: China want this held up as long as possible so CDL is up and running /shipping before anyone steps foot on Roche Dure .

D: None of the above ?

A, B & C.

But not just our old enemies.

As I've said before, China can open a mine adjacent to what remains of AVZ but US needs to provide protection for RD. WHY????

US has been awake to what's going down here since long before they ever invested in Lobito 10 million years ago.

I'm not going to go on, but there is much more that we all know that screams conspiracy. But I will say that none of these events are unrelated to the rest of this shit.

Nothing happens in isolation.

US and KoBold are not our mates or saviours. Peeps need to stop hoping that they are.
They are in it for themselves.
Just like YOU

I have no more ideas than anyone else here what the real events are. But the number of potential permutations are astronomical.
For that reason, I take nothing at face value.

Bizniz eez bizniz.

Six weeks ago, I said that this will run and run. The monstrous lithium, tin & tantalum deposits make it impossible for anyone to give up without the fight of their lives.

I still don't see a successful resolution anytime soon for the same reasons.
Hopefully, I'm wrong, but the rumour mill would suggest otherwise, and I have learned to believe negative rumours before positive ones.

 

[JNRB]

jeeeezuz.......
you would think after literally YEARS of this saga people would have a bit more patience. But no, a few delays, a few cynically structured scenarios from Wombat, and people are pooping themselves again.

OPTION E
THINGS ARE STILL MOVING IT JUST TAKES SOME TIME.

- DRC and Rwanda have already singed a framework for a peace deal. That is a HUGE step.
- We know discussions are continuing around the minerals/commercial framework agreements to be signed with USA.
- USA is NOT going to get fkd around on this.
- KoBold has agreed to a framework to buy AVZ, contingent on their entrance to the DRC being backed up by the above minerals/commercial framework between USA and DRC.

No one has any information (that's been shared) that indicates anything to the contrary.

@wombat74

Kobold still silent?

Tell me wombat why is it you think that Kobold should have made any sort of public announcement at this stage?
Their silence means nothing other than they're more patient than you are.

 

[PutUsernameHere]

jeeeezuz.......
you would think after literally YEARS of this saga people would have a bit more patience. But no, a few delays, a few cynically structured scenarios from Wombat, and people are pooping themselves again.

OPTION E
THINGS ARE STILL MOVING IT JUST TAKES SOME TIME.

- DRC and Rwanda have already singed a framework for a peace deal. That is a HUGE step.
- We know discussions are continuing around the minerals/commercial framework agreements to be signed with USA.
- USA is NOT going to get fkd around on this.
- KoBold has agreed to a framework to buy AVZ, contingent on their entrance to the DRC being backed up by the above minerals/commercial framework between USA and DRC.

No one has any information (that's been shared) that indicates anything to the contrary.

@wombat74

Tell me wombat why is it you think that Kobold should have made any sort of public announcement at this stage?
Their silence means nothing other than they're more patient than you are.

Fair call, but that was years when the most constant news we were getting was "suspension extended" for the most part, and anything else was few and far between. Now we're getting proposed/actual dates of things happening, but it's largely opaque on any detail. Can't blame human nature for getting a little ancy when after all these years we're seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. No one's sure if its a pin hole or a king's entrance. It's gambler's folly with information, now that I've had some, I want MORE

 

[JNRB]

Fair call, but that was years when the most constant news we were getting was "suspension extended" for the most part, and anything else was few and far between. Now we're getting proposed/actual dates of things happening, but it's largely opaque on any detail. Can't blame human nature for getting a little ancy when after all these years we're seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. No one's sure if its a pin hole or a king's entrance. It's gambler's folly with information, now that I've had some, I want MORE

I can't and don't blame human nature,
But can and do blame posters like wombat for exploiting that nature by l constantly presenting a selectively negative set of speculative scenarios

 

[wombat74]

I can't and don't blame human nature,
But can and do blame posters like wombat for exploiting that nature by l constantly presenting a selectively negative set of speculative scenarios

Go easy mate . The point I was making is Kobold remaining silent is encouraging . Not f--king negative . I posted previously that rather than focusing on the negative news (or no news ) from AVZ we should keep an eye on what Kobold is doing /saying . That the news flow will probably come from Kobold and not AVZ .Kobold staying quiet to me is positive . OK ?

 

[Dave Evans]

https://x.com/KiengeKki/status/1942535420182511929

Congolese defense associations and four former directors of Gécamines have filed a complaint against 9 members of the family of the President of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Félix #Tshisekedi, for the plundering of minerals in the provinces of Haut-Katanga and Lualaba, before the Belgian justice system, targeting nine members of the family of the President of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Félix Tshisekedi, for the looting of mining sites in the provinces of Haut-Katanga and Lualaba. These 9 members of the Tshisekedi presidential clan (sister-in-law, son, brothers, cousins, and even the country's first lady), presented as "co-authors and accomplices of acts of corruption" during the plundering of mining sites. The complaint has been submitted to Federal Prosecutor Ann Fransen by lawyers Bernard and Brieuc Maingain. The 9 accused are all Belgian citizens and can be prosecuted by the Belgian justice system. "Other complaints may be filed soon in other countries from which other looters of our wealth originate," explains one of the plaintiffs. Kiki

I keep private records these days. Here’s a nice article from last month to compliment yours @bloke383

01/06/2025

High levels of corruption crumbling Tshisekedi regime​

Author: Yousuf Rwaka
2025-06-01

The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) stands out as one of the most corrupt and poor countries worldwide. President Felix Tshisekedi’s family and inner circle are embezzling national resources while the Congolese suffer from hunger and poor infrastructure in all aspects of life.

Congolese Minister of Justice Constant Mutamba is now one of the targets of the very system he oversees. He is under investigation for embezzlement and public funds mismanagement.

A request for investigation was made by the Attorney General to the National Assembly to launch a judicial investigation on Mutamba, who is accused of embezzling USD 39 million intended for the construction of a prison in Kisangani, Tshopo province.

“The National Assembly has authorized the Attorney General of the Court of Cassation to initiate legal proceedings against the Minister of Justice. He was forced to submit his resignation to Prime Minister Judith Suminwa,” said a source from Kinshasa.

For the minister of justice to be subjected to prosecution, the National Assembly was required to lift his immunity. It is unclear whether Tshisekedi will allow fair legal proceedings against Mutamba’s crimes, as the latter has been the president’s preferred proxy.

Tshisekedi had shielded his special strategic advisor, Vidiye Tshimanga, in September 2022, after leaked videos went viral showing Tshimanga offering unlimited access to DRC’s minerals in exchange for bribes, including shares in the companies and underhand paybacks, for himself and the president.

Former Minister of Finance, Nicolas Kazadi, a close confidant of Tshisekedi, has been linked to a scandal regarding the misappropriation of millions of US dollars.

Since Tshisekedi’s maneuvers to mask corruption scandals tied to his inner circle are not anything new, Kazadi discreetly left DRC in June 2024 for France through arrangements made from the President’s Office.

Kazadi has never been subject to any arrest warrant, and his case has remained dormant.

On May 20, the former Prime Minister who turned opposition leader - Matata Ponyo - was sentenced to 10 years of forced labor after he was convicted by the Constitutional Court of involvement in the embezzlement of approximately USD 245 million in state funds.

Matata’s accomplices, such as former Central Bank Governor Deogratias Mutombo and South African businessman Christo Grobler were sentenced to five years in prison.

Corruption and embezzlement are longstanding issues in the DRC, but Tshisekedi’s regime made the situation worse than ever.

Tshisekedi’s regime is increasingly crumbling over corruption and embezzlement scandals, in addition to the escalating armed conflict in eastern DRC where AFC/M23 rebels control swathes of territory in the Kivus.

The 2024 Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) ranked DRC 163 out of 180 countries, with a score of 20 out of 100, indicating a high level of perceived public sector corruption. The report perceived DRC as one of the least effective countries in controlling public-sector corruption.

High levels of corruption crumbling Tshisekedi regime​

High levels of corruption crumbling Tshisekedi regime
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