AVZ Discussion 2022

Flight996

Regular
While KoBold remains the DRC's golden child, and its contract with the DRC to explore and develop the southern part of Manono (Roche Dure) remains in place, alternative bidders may find it difficult getting a foot in the door. Unfortunately, the DRC may block them in order to save face, consolidate the DRC-KoBold deal and further isolate AVZ Minerals.

I do not know the terms of the DRC-KoBold deal, particularly the length of any exclusivity period (if any) where KoBold is shielded from higher offers while it negotiates with AVZ MInerals, but if anyone has that information please advise.

This saga still has a way to run, but Nigel's recent published interview was a watershed moment that will make the DRC thieves and US opportunists rethink their cavalier negotiating strategies. I think it was a great initiative, and Nigel's strong reference to his fiduciary duties deserves respect.

For far too long AVZ has been played because it chose to not comment publicly while making concessions in order to engage with a totally corrupt regime and an intransigent KoBold. Thanks to that article, the situation is changed. Both the DRC and KoBold are on notice that AVZ Minerals' assets are not for sale at fire-sale prices.

Finally, AVZ retains the moral high ground, has DLA Piper in its corner, fully funded ICC and ICSID arbitrations underway, and now a different engagement strategy. Let's see what happens over the next month or so as the DRC's special envoy attempts to untangle this mess and get some clear negotiating air.

Cheers
F
 
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hedrox

Regular
The way I interpret the current DRC/USA comments, the article and Nigel's comments is that AVZ sell it to the Highest US bidder or continue Arbitration with funding from Cath. I don't think the DRC will allow Cath or a Chinese entity to have Roche Dure as they need to US Commerical agree

While KoBold remains the DRC's golden child, and its contract with the DRC to explore and develop the southern part of Manono (Roche Dure) remains in place, alternative bidders may find it difficult getting a foot in the door. Unfortunately, the DRC may block them in order to save face, consolidate the DRC-KoBold deal and further isolate AVZ Minerals.

I do not know the terms of the DRC-KoBold deal, particularly the length of any exclusivity period (if any) where KoBold is shielded from higher offers while it negotiates with AVZ MInerals, but if anyone has that information please advise.

This saga still has a way to run, but Nigel's recent published interview was a watershed moment that will make the DRC thieves and US opportunists rethink their cavalier negotiating strategies. I think it was a great initiative, and Nigel's strong reference to his fiduciary duties deserves respect.

For far too long AVZ has been played because it chose to not comment publicly while making concessions in order to engage with a totally corrupt regime and an intransigent KoBold. Thanks to that article, the situation is changed. Both the DRC and KoBold are on notice that AVZ Minerals' assets are not for sale at fire-sale prices.

Finally, AVZ retains the moral high ground, has DLA Piper in its corner, fully funded ICC and ICSID arbitrations underway, and now a different engagement strategy. Let's see what happens over the next month or so as the DRC's special envoy attempts to untangle this mess and get some clear negotiating air.

Cheers
F
But why is mister Pei and a Kobold representative in Perth is the question ?
CATH / Kobold JV may be ?
 
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Flight996

Regular
But why is mister Pei and a Kobold representative in Perth is the question ?
CATH / Kobold JV may be ?

I suspect that you may be right.

KoBold is pretty-much just an exploration vehicle. Despite being reminded ad-nauseam about its rich-lister members, I doubt its pockets are sufficiently deep to fully fund the purchase and development of Manono, including an hydroxide or carbonate plant.

A three-way tie-up that spreads the funding load seems sensible.

(Pei apparently has 60% ownership of CATH. That's why he's there too).

Cheers
F
 
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But why is mister Pei and a Kobold representative in Perth is the question ?
CATH / Kobold JV may be ?

Seems unlikely to me if USA concerned about China's dominance to then go into partnership with them. Especially Trump's anti-china stance.

Mr Pei and Kobold are in Perth because Mr Pei is trying to protect his investment. Although some news articles are somewhat hyperbole, it really is China vs USA, AVZ is the dealer and caught in the middle in a 3 way, hopefully they (we) enjoy it
 
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Skar

Regular
To me what is interesting is AVZ/Manono is on very few peoples radar. I would consider these guys to be the most mainstream lithium voice and absolute FA about it. They even talked about M&A and didn't mention kobold.



Would be good to see revised figures from AVZ. Would be better if DRC just granted the ML.
 
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Skar

Regular
Seems unlikely to me if USA concerned about China's dominance to then go into partnership with them.
America is built on hypocrisy, ideals are to keep the masses in line. The decision makers and captains of industry are the ones who sell/sold out their ideals time and time again. So 100% yes I think parts of USA, the big unwieldy machine that it is, would partner with China for a dollar or two.

Heck all other things being equal, I would vote to sell Manono to China over USA for as little as a 5-10% premium in the shareprice and if security and assurances were in place I would probably prefer to side with China to get Manono developed if that was an options still (as they are just much more efficient and experienced in getting shit done case in point: DRC corruption hasn't even slowed them down but its completely crippled us - its not a level playing field). The problem with China is they don't play fair, they can easily bully and throw their weight around, even to partners.

Its only recently with this minerals for peace deal that USA are starting to throw their weight around... they got a LONG road to negate China influence and ability to get in and get shit done.
 
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whales

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But why is mister Pei and a Kobold representative in Perth is the question ?
CATH / Kobold JV may be ?
I disappointed to express this opinion .
But could be a 3 way tripartite agreement.
Kobold + CATH + ZIJIN
Kobold provides the SOUTH and US Security for minerals
CATH provides the hydroxide plant in the DRC and retains its investment
ZIJIN are the miners for North and South with compensation paid for the North .
Unless RIO becomes involved.
Between these 3 paying fai value would not be a problem and each brings to the table a resolution for Monano .
DRC save face.
ALL IMO
 
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Wingy

Emerged
No Way Disbelief GIF
Bet that makes you feel good!!
 

pow4ade

Regular
I disappointed to express this opinion .
But could be a 3 way tripartite agreement.
Kobold + CATH + ZIJIN
Kobold provides the SOUTH and US Security for minerals
CATH provides the hydroxide plant in the DRC and retains its investment
ZIJIN are the miners for North and South with compensation paid for the North .
Unless RIO becomes involved.
Between these 3 paying fai value would not be a problem and each brings to the table a resolution for Monano .
DRC save face.
ALL IMO
That much Chinese involvement would be unpalatable to the US, re their ambition to secure lithium supply under the mineral/security deal.

This has been spelt out to Felix from the outset, hence him ordaining Kobold. Yet they need a serious miner so it has to be RIO IMO to guarantee supply for the US.

Trump is pragmatic aenough to tolerate CATH, if need be, so long as they play nice. So screw Zijin, it's Kolbold/CATH/RIO the most likely JV I reckon.
 
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Javman

Member
That much Chinese involvement would be unpalatable to the US, re their ambition to secure lithium supply under the mineral/security deal.

This has been spelt out to Felix from the outset, hence him ordaining Kobold. Yet they need a serious miner so it has to be RIO IMO to guarantee supply for the US.

Trump is pragmatic aenough to tolerate CATH, if need be, so long as they play nice. So screw Zijin, it's Kolbold/CATH/RIO the most likely JV I reckon.

Is there no equivalent to RIO which is US owned?
 
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Anchorman

Emerged
I think this enforcement is a HUGE word...imo
The world is watching GAZA but not many taking action...imo
So NIGEL might struggle, to get others to accept HIS offer...imo

The CHINESE and the US can sit back and Just wait it out...imo..!
So can NIGEL, he CAN just also WAIT IT OUT... imo...!
 

Skar

Regular
Also remember the DRC will not ENGAGE with AVZ...NIGEL SAID
Then by this by NIGEL AVZ ANN, the DRC will not WAIT for AVZ...imo

Correct, current administration will NOT deal with AVZ and DRC may not wait and illegally circumvent their own laws (like they did with the north). Problem is, that really only leaves China for DRC to deal with, as any western company will have to abide by the rule of law\international court decisions and cannot get involved (from a risk management point of view) with any pending legal issues (or engage in any corrupt dealings).

A few outcomes here, US wanting access to Congo facilitates free democratic elections to organise a more stable and ideologically aligned government that will uphold the law, AVZ finds another buyer the DRC will treat with if Kobold wont pay up or the project is illegally seized (we already have a ruling for DRC to not take any action while disputes are ongoing) and the DRC face sanctions asset seizures in western friendly jurisdictions once arbitration is ruled in our favour (or at some point along the way a settlement is reached for fair value with the DRC).
 
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Shire

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IMG_1894.jpeg
 
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Food for thought with Zijin coincidentally setting up office in the same West Perth building as AVZ and the likes of tolate hiding in the walls for the CCP.

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/e...-5-billion-a-year-asio-shows-us-the-receipts/

Espionage costs Australia more than $12.5 billion a year: ASIO shows us the receipts

Spying by nation states is not new, and despite our geography, Australia has never been immune. This was made abundantly clear in a unique study, released last night by Director-General of Security Mike Burgess. Thanks to this study, Australians now have a sophisticated estimate of the cost of espionage directed against our governments, businesses and universities: at least $12.5 billion in just a single year.

While giving the 26th annual Hawke lecture, Burgess was measured, but still frank in his disbelief at the mix of inertia, naivety and fatalism that Australians are demonstrating across sectors (not just across government departments) in response to the threat of espionage. Burgess outlined that on all levels—government, industry and individual—behavioural responses are key to arresting the threat, or at least mitigating it more effectively. This tells us we need to stop leaving the house unlocked while shouting down the street that we have valuables on the kitchen bench.

As the result of a unique study by the Australian Institute of Criminology (AIC) on behalf of the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation, The Cost of Espionage does what it says on the tin: it uses the AIC’s well-practiced methodology for assessing the costs of serious and organised crime to estimate the costs of espionage. That cost amounts to $12.5 billion for 2023–24, capturing direct costs of known or suspected espionage, and public and private sector mitigation and response costs. In addition, the study estimates that effective mitigations and counter-espionage activities have prevented tens of billions of dollars’ worth of espionage costs.

As ASIO and the AIC highlight, these estimates are conservative. Using ASIO’s narrow definition of espionage—theft of Australian information, critically, by or for a foreign government that is seeking an advantage over Australia—the AIC broke down some estimates of costs across society and the economy:

—Cyber security incidents affecting larger businesses cost up to $1,193.8 million, while those affecting universities cost up to $14.5 million;

—State or state-sponsored insider threats cost the private sector up to $324.8 million and universities up to $25 million; and

—Cyber-enabled theft of intellectual property and trade secrets cost businesses up to $1,1901 million and universities $628 million.

Cost estimates also included (unitemised) cybersecurity costs for the federal government.

There is a danger that the eye-watering $12.5 billion figure could induce paralysis. If spying is so persistent, and the cost is so great, then why not shrug our shoulders? Is it not just the cost of doing business, including lucrative business with China?

It’s here that the prevented costs are so arresting, not least because their mirror image is the costs we are likely risking if mitigations fail. The AIC developed a series of scenarios to estimate these kinds of potential losses. This led to findings that an economy-wide, week-long disruption to industries dependent on digital technologies could cost Australia over $5.9 billion, and that trade secrets theft from a large, publicly listed Australian company could cost up to $887 million per incident.

Burgess also made clear that espionage takes wholly unexpected forms, highlighting the whole-of-nation challenge. This has included, for example, the theft of fruit tree branches from a sensitive Australian horticultural facility, resulting in foreign reverse engineering and replication of what took Australian scientists two decades of research and development.

And then there are those costs that simply won’t be found in a spreadsheet.

Espionage is not simply about stealing secrets. Whether through human agents, cyber intrusions, insider access, or open-source exploitation, espionage provides the intelligence needed for malign states to calibrate coercive strategies targeting our sovereignty, economic competitiveness and social cohesion. Modern espionage enables not just intelligence collection, but manipulation, disruption and strategic shaping. It doesn’t stop at the exfiltration of information. Increasingly, it’s about embedding influence and pre-positioning for strategic effect. Access is used not only to survey and monitor but to shape systems from within.

Cyber operations, legal commercial activities, academic partnerships and dual-use AI technologies now intersect to enable state-sponsored espionage at scale. Cyber intrusions silently map networks and exfiltrate data, open-source information is weaponised to tailor influence operations, and commercial espionage undermines the development of sovereign technologies.

In this hybrid threat landscape, espionage doesn’t just support state objectives; it powers them. It allows malign states to apply sustained pressure without crossing the threshold of armed conflict, leveraging ambiguity to avoid accountability. Understanding the true cost of espionage means recognising it as the enabler of a strategic environment where information is weaponised, trust is degraded and resilience is tested.

As international competition intensifies, malign states such as China and Russia should be expected to increasingly favour persistent access over one-off breaches. This includes embedding themselves in critical infrastructure, for example, to enable pre-positioned leverage.

For Australia, these risks have real consequences. Compromises in defence, research, or critical industries and infrastructure can have cascading national effects, from reputational damage and supply chain disruption to the erosion of societal trust, or as Burgess described it: ‘The potential loss of strategic advantage, sovereign decision-making and warfighting capacity’. This danger is greatly compounded by the potential costs of a compromise of the AUKUS program, which would expose Washington and London’s most sensitive secrets.

This only underscores Burgess’s long-standing case for a national security approach that is genuinely national. The government’s current counter-espionage investments are delivering dividends. But as he reiterated, ‘Security is a shared responsibility, and in the prevailing threat environment, national security truly is national security—everybody’s business.’

We need to be clear: ASIO is the security service, but it’s not our security manager. Burgess gave practical advice applicable not just to espionage but to criminal theft, fraud, workplace accidents and equipment failures: ‘Understand the threat, identify the risk, manage the risk.’ All require a coherent, connected strategy across whole enterprises—people, places, technology and information.

The work of ASIO and the AIC in producing this report is vital. If ASIO’s job is to catch the spies, this report is about driving the national shift needed to make it harder for foreign spies to succeed in the first place. Quantifying the cost of espionage helps us all begin to close the gaps that malign states so effectively exploit.
 
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We could just about write the book on this after the last few years...


"....Espionage is not simply about stealing secrets. Whether through human agents, cyber intrusions, insider access, or open-source exploitation, espionage provides the intelligence needed for malign states to calibrate coercive strategies targeting our sovereignty, economic competitiveness and social cohesion. Modern espionage enables not just intelligence collection, but manipulation, disruption and strategic shaping. It doesn’t stop at the exfiltration of information. Increasingly, it’s about embedding influence and pre-positioning for strategic effect. Access is used not only to survey and monitor but to shape systems from within.

Cyber operations, legal commercial activities, academic partnerships and dual-use AI technologies now intersect to enable state-sponsored espionage at scale. Cyber intrusions silently map networks and exfiltrate data, open-source information is weaponised to tailor influence operations, and commercial espionage undermines the development of sovereign technologies.

In this hybrid threat landscape, espionage doesn’t just support state objectives; it powers them. It allows malign states to apply sustained pressure without crossing the threshold of armed conflict, leveraging ambiguity to avoid accountability. Understanding the true cost of espionage means recognising it as the enabler of a strategic environment where information is weaponised, trust is degraded and resilience is tested...."
 
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Anchorman

Emerged
Yes that could be TRUE..???????????????
But maybe the DRC will not be that patient.. and just give the US or the CHINESE a M L for the SOUTH
Remember that ZIJIN has the NORTH and a M L..!

maybe they GIVE IT to CHINA or the US…??? But WITHOUT clearing AVZ’s RIGHTS..? I DON'T think so..!! AVZ has the DFS… the JV… the TENURE..! You think the DRC wants INTERNATIONAL ARBITRATION..?? More delays..? BAD LOOK..!! Investors would RUN..!


Zijin ILLEGALLY obtained the NORTH … but the North and SOUTH is STILL AVZ’s imo..!
You can’t just WIPE that away… doesn’t work like that..!!
 
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Doc

Master of Quan
You know if you talk to yourself and answer its a sign of insanity, just sayin....IMO!
 
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Anchorman

Emerged
I wish you valuation, opinion has SUBSTANCE
By DRC records ZIJIN owns the NORTH and has a M L...!...imo
But the SOUTH is still swinging in the BREEZE...imo
Nigel ANN concerns me on his intentions...imo..!

The SUBSTANCE comes from the WORLD STAGE.. not the corrupt DRC.. LMAO..!!!
You KNOW the DRC have REQUESTED SECURITY from the US...???
That’s a HOT TOPIC right now... not a Questionable signature... imo...!
The SOUTH still IN PLAY is it not?????????? ... make no mistake...!
 
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Winenut

GO AVZ!!!!
Why the fuck is he talking to himself????

This is next level fucking hilarious!

1754269461108.gif
 
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Retrobyte

Hates a beer
Food for thought with Zijin coincidentally setting up office in the same West Perth building as AVZ and the likes of tolate hiding in the walls for the CCP.

1754270281659.png
 
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