BRN Discussion Ongoing

[Frangipani]

Your statement doesn't make sense Frangipani..

His "conclusion" was based on the price and power usage of AKIDA products.

My original point, was that his logic was flawed on price point and now possibly also on power consumption.

Which makes all his points against AKIDA irrelevant, in my opinion.

That's my point, what's his, if his commentary on AKIDA is flawed?

I disagree. My point is that your logic regarding price calculation is flawed, and his is not, as I see it. And even if an Akida Dev Kit used magnitudes of less power than the 180 W the author (rightly or wrongly) claims it does, you’d need to invest a lot of money first (let’s take the US$5000 for the less expensive Raspberry Pi Dev Kit, and since it is sold out on the Brainchip website, let’s say you could get it for a slight discount from somebody who originally purchased it), which you are not likely to ever make up with power savings for the duration of your research project, even if your microcontroller was not as low power as the Akida device.

Of course you could reuse it for countless future projects, though…

But for someone who doesn’t have the budget to buy an Akida Dev Kit and only wants to play around occasionally, I don’t see why the idea of an inexpensive prototype like that developed by Ivan Maksymov (provided it is functional) is such a bad one?
(Not that I’d have the slightest clue what to do with it…)

Look, I had never heard of this gentleman until yesterday, happened to stumble upon his preprint when googling, thought I would share his mentioning of Akida here, and now feel I have to defend him because IMO he was being unfairly attacked. That’s all.

 

[DingoBorat]

Looks to me, like he provided "references" to the information provided, thinking no one would actually bother to look them up?..

Also, if AKIDA is included in a system (the PC Shuttle) even if that system did use the full 180w (I'm thinking that would be the "maximum" intended draw).

Does that reflect on the actual "AKIDA component" power usage?

The logic in his arguments against AKIDA, just don't make sense to me, even from a layman's view..

This from a quick search on the net, first thing that came up..

"Yes, a power supply draws power relative to how much is being used. So if your PC hardware is only using 200W, your 500W power supply won't draw 500W. How much it draws will vary from power supply to power supply"

Seriously, how can this guy make a statement of consumed power from so little information?
And then put it in a scientific paper, with references, that don't match up??

Surely someone with PhDs in "Electrical Engineering" and "Theoretical and Mathematical Physics" would know, without a shadow of a doubt, that a device's power consumption, isn't determined by the size of its power supply??

So how can he possibly come to the conclusion, that the AKIDA Development Kit "consumes 180w"??

That's not just sloppy research.

The only conclusion I can come to, is that it can be likened to a scientific tenet of "baffle them with bullshit".

 

[DingoBorat]

I disagree. My point is that your logic regarding price calculation is flawed, and his is not, as I see it. And even if an Akida Dev Kit used magnitudes of less power than the 180 W the author (rightly or wrongly) claims it does, you’d need to invest a lot of money first (let’s take the US$5000 for the less expensive Raspberry Pi Dev Kit, and since it is sold out on the Brainchip website, let’s say you could get it for a slight discount from somebody who originally purchased it), which you are not likely to ever make up with power savings for the duration of your research project, even if your microcontroller was not as low power as the Akida device.

Of course you could reuse it for countless future projects, though…

But for someone who doesn’t have the budget to buy an Akida Dev Kit and only wants to play around occasionally, I don’t see why the idea of an inexpensive prototype like that developed by Ivan Maksymov (provided it is functional) is such a bad one?
(Not that I’d have the slightest clue what to do with it…)

Look, I had never heard of this gentleman until yesterday, happened to stumble upon his preprint when googling, thought I would share his mentioning of Akida here, and now feel I have to defend him because IMO he was being unfairly attacked. That’s all.

I don't think he's being unfairly attacked at all.

In fact, he's "unfairly" attacking the value proposition of AKIDA, from what can only be a skewed personal perception, without relevant facts, in my opinion.

AKIDA development kits, aren't specifically intended for backyard hobbyists and are not priced as such.

The Quantum Ventura AKIDA USB stick at ~$US50.00 (should that product eventuate) is and although he can't possibly do a price comparison on a product that doesn't exist yet, his "product" at ~$US100 doesn't exist yet either?..

And which product, if both existed, would absolutely bury the other?

I'm thinking it would be the AKIDA USB stick, but that is of course, just a guess.


I still can't see how you can agree on his argument of price point..

But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, again

 

[TECH]

Gidday All,

This month has plenty going on...CES and Podcast/s and of course our Quarterly Report and 4C, which in real terms is only
about 15 business days away.

Once again, I'm thinking nothing much to see at all apart from maybe early funds having been received from LDA Capital, it is an
interesting period but one where I remain strong in my beliefs that things are finally set to propel us forward, maybe not as fast as we
all wish, but never-the-less forward over the coming 4 quarters.

Just remember this; We are in an extremely strong position currently, do debt, solid cash on hand, yes we have added more shares, yes
we are still a target for manipulators, but the Technology, the Patents, the Staff, the Partnerships all out weigh how many view the present
situation, as I have personally said a few times now, "If Brainchip can't succeed, well good luck to the mob"

Something from TATA involving us is the news I'm looking for from CES next week ! Tech.

 

[Sirod69]

HUMAN BEHAVIOUR AI​

NEUROMORPHIC COMPUTING​

NVISO empowers system integrators to build AI-driven human machine interfaces to transform our lives using neuromorphic computing. Understand people and their behavior in real-time without an internet connection to make autonomous devices safe, secure, and personalized for humans.

BrainChip and NVISO Group Demonstrate AI-Enabled Human Behavioral Analysis at CES 2024

Neuromorphic Computing - NVISO

HUMAN BEHAVIOUR AI NEUROMORPHIC COMPUTING NVISO empowers system integrators to build AI-driven human machine interfaces to transform our lives using neuromorphic computing. Understand people and their behavior in real-time without an internet connection to make autonomous devices safe, secure...

nviso.ai

 

[IloveLamp]

That is a good question.

We all make mistakes, and in finding the definition of a mistake, we even do mistakes, only time of experience let made us wiser.
Well,....it is all a question of "one shot learning versus few shot learning".
But spelling mistakes have to be adressed to the direction where it comes from. That is no big deal, right. /even if it could be a new software program with akida inside.

Can anyone provide a customer base list from NVISO?Please....?
With whom are they dealing?

NVISO / BRN

Thought a thread for this partnership would come in handy..................I did some stalking of the Rob Telson equivelent from NVISO on LinkedIn. A few potential customers below....... Tip of the Ice Berg ppl..........no surprises here

thestockexchange.com.au

 

[IloveLamp]

This article is an interesting read, It also links magna to apple...

Magna is one of the companies Rob has been liking recently.

An Apple Car; A Tesla Phone

An Apple Car; A Tesla Phone

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about and that is not being talked about." – Oscar Wilde Tesla’s impact on the automotive industry is driven by several industry redefining elements including a reworking and centralization of vehicle electronic architectures, a direct sa

www.linkedin.com

 

[stockduck]

NVISO / BRN

Thought a thread for this partnership would come in handy..................I did some stalking of the Rob Telson equivelent from NVISO on LinkedIn. A few potential customers below....... Tip of the Ice Berg ppl..........no surprises here

thestockexchange.com.au

...much appreciated!

So there are many customers to maybe consider what Mr. Drake from microchip has to explain.....

“In this collaborative showcase with BrainChip, we will illustrate how our customers can leverage the advantages of next-generation AI to enable low-power, high-performance machine learning applications on our embedded platforms,” said Rod Drake, corporate vice president of Microchip’s MPU32 and MCU32 business units. “This is truly a not-to-miss demonstration at CES 2024.”
...

BrainChip to Unveil Akida Neuromorphic Processor Enabled by Microchip’s 32-bit MPU at CES 2024

With a focus on ultra-low latency, minimal power consumption, and unparalleled accuracy, this collaboration explores the forefront of innovation at the Edge.

brainchip.com

 

[IloveLamp]

GAME ON ......

Sony Shows Off Next-Gen TV Technology - And It Isn’t OLED

Sony targets way more brightness for less power consumption with new Mini LED display

www.forbes.com

 

[stockduck]

CES 2025 | Las Vegas | Accenture

Accenture is a sponsor at CES 2025 in Las Vegas, sharing experiences and examples of scaling GenAI in the real world. Join us.

www.accenture.com

Maybe someone, who is attending at the CES could refer us to the topics off:

Accenture on the CES Main Stage​

All sessions are posted in PST​

Jan 10 – 9:00 am - The Hard Part of AI: Hardware and Chips​

As Generative AI breaks into the mainstream, take a look under the hood at the hardware and practical building blocks powering this technology.


I hope they are the same accenture firm from January 9, 2023:

BrainChip Talks AI Innovation with Accenture’s Managing Director and Global Chief Technology Officer of Accenture Applied Intelligence Jean-Luc Chatelain

BrainChip engages in AI innovation discussions with Accenture's Jean-Luc Chatelain, exploring transformative advancements across industries.

brainchip.com

BrainChip Talks AI Innovation with Accenture’s Managing Director and Global Chief Technology Officer of Accenture Applied Intelligence Jean-Luc Chatelain​

 

[Neuromorphia]

GAME ON ......

Sony Shows Off Next-Gen TV Technology - And It Isn’t OLED

Sony targets way more brightness for less power consumption with new Mini LED display

www.forbes.com

View attachment 53537
View attachment 53538 View attachment 53539 View attachment 53540 View attachment 53541

???

Home

iotypro.com

Cognitive Processor XR, powered by cognitive intelligence, divides the screen into numerous zones and detects where the “focal point” is in the picture.

 

[The Pope]

RT (Batman) likes another Circle 8 post (don’t know if this was posted on TSE before). For only those posters who like dot joining.

Collection and separation of plastics is the key ingredient of a circular economy. | Mark Grogan

Collection and separation of plastics is the key ingredient of a circular economy. The world is lacking in collection systems!

www.linkedin.com

 

[Kachoo]

RT (Batman) likes another Circle 8 post (don’t know if this was posted on TSE before). For only those posters who like dot joining.

Collection and separation of plastics is the key ingredient of a circular economy. | Mark Grogan

Collection and separation of plastics is the key ingredient of a circular economy. The world is lacking in collection systems!

www.linkedin.com

We have been through this Rob like posts that he personally invests in like BRN holders!

FYI we are partnered with them!

 

[Diogenese]

He apparently deduced, that the PC Development Kit "consumed 180w" from the reference [88] but I can't find the original paper, from your link..

It's possibly from the PC shuttle specifications here?

Akida™ Development Kit - Shuttle PC

Specifications Storage – SATA / M.2 1x 2.5" bay for SATA hard disk or SSD, max. 9.5 mm 1x M.2-2280M slot (supports PCIe x4 NVMe or SATA) 1x M.2-2230AE for an optional WLAN card Connectors HDMI 2.0a D-Sub VGA 4x USB 3.2 Gen1 4x USB 2.0 1x USB 2.0 internal USB stick 2x audio (line out, mic) Intel...

shop.brainchipinc.com

Which only lists the power supply, as I've stated.

View attachment 53528

Things electrical are like "black magic" to me, but maybe someone here, more electrically inclined, can comment if power consumption, can be ascertained from the provided power supply.

I personally think Peter would be horrified, if AKIDA consumed 180w..

Hi DB,

The 180 W has nothing to do with Akida's power consumption. It refers to the Shuttle PC power supply. This is an example of a Shuttle PC into which the Akida PCIe board could be plugged:

https://www.catch.com.au/product/shuttle-xh510g2-slim-mini-pc-5l-barebone-intel-11-10th-gen-pcie-x16-pcie-x1-lan-hdmi-dp-2x-ddr4-2-5-hdd-ssd-bay-2xm-2-2280-180w-11482534/?offer_id=91722247&ref=gmc&st=123&iv_=__iv_p_1_a_662349084_g_1244648463498082_c__k__m_e_w_pla-4581390093492546_n_o_d_c_v__l__t__r__x__y_81285_f_Online_o_91722247_z_AU_i_EN_j_4581390093492546_s__e__h__ii__vi__&msclkid=2bf6b4da83fc189e8648d14362653d72&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Sparro | PMax | Marketplace | No-Sale | Superbands Experiment&utm_term=4581390093492546&utm_content=Ad group


Shuttle XPC slim XH510G2 equips with Intel H510 chipset, which expertly supports Intel 11th Gen LGA1200 65W Core CPU delivers high-performance computing for applications that demand high-speed processing and computer vision. Despite its 5-liter compact chassis, XH510G2 provides a PCI-Ex16 slot to install an extra dual slot graphics card, capture card, or more to meet diverse application requirements. The XH510G2 also offers multiple interfaces to connect peripherals, including 4x USB 3.2 Gen1, 4x USB 2.0, an HDMI 2.0, a DisplayPort 1.4, SATA connectors, M.2 slots, and Intel Gigabit LAN. These scalabilities provide all the fundamentals to boost daily productivity. It is perfect for the video wall, POS server, surveillance, professional creators, and Kiosk applications.

As you imply, the power supply would be designed to be able to supply more power than the processors rated power. Some of the 180 W would be used for the fan to cool the 65 W Intel CPU.

The Akida board would be plugged into the PCI-Ex16 slot.

Akida is processor agnostic and can be run with all ARM processors as well as with Microchip processors.

We know Akida can perform complex tasks using tenths of a Watt. This is insignificant in relation to the 65 W consumed by the intel CPU, and the 180 W figure has no relevance to Akida.

Remember that Akida 1000 runs without any use of the CPU once it is configured. There may of course be post-processing of Akida results by the CPU, but Akida will have done the heavy lifting.

 

[Kachoo]

GAME ON ......

Sony Shows Off Next-Gen TV Technology - And It Isn’t OLED

Sony targets way more brightness for less power consumption with new Mini LED display

www.forbes.com

View attachment 53537
View attachment 53538 View attachment 53539 View attachment 53540 View attachment 53541

That would be a dream.

 

[IloveLamp]

Work with us to capitalize on the paradigm shift in the manufacturing industry being brought about by the IIoT and edge computing. | Microchip Technology Inc.

Work with us to capitalize on the paradigm shift in the manufacturing industry being brought about by the IIoT and edge computing. Watch the video to learn how: https://mchp.us/3MAIII6. Go here for more information: https://mchp.us/3u1kv74. #Manufacturing #IIoT #EdgeComputing

www.linkedin.com

https://mchp.us/3u1kv74

 

[Diogenese]

Looks to me, like he provided "references" to the information provided, thinking no one would actually bother to look them up?..

Also, if AKIDA is included in a system (the PC Shuttle) even if that system did use the full 180w (I'm thinking that would be the "maximum" intended draw).

Does that reflect on the actual "AKIDA component" power usage?

The logic in his arguments against AKIDA, just don't make sense to me, even from a layman's view..

Quite right.

If the system is designed to operate in sleep mode with a little bit of Akida (2 nodes?) running a wake word lookout, the system would draw very little power, and only a maximum of 300 mW when in operation for the Akida classification/inference functions.

 

[Iseki]

Straight from Rod Drake's lips to your ears


View attachment 53509

I agree it is a great achievement to work with the Microchips platform.

I think it means that manufacturers can go out and start writing software for their different products, that can go straight into the finished doorbell or Mercedes or whatever.

The only worry that I have ever had is that once they write their software for the product and they need, for example 10,000 arm Cortex M chips with an Akida variant inside to start manufacturing, they need to put an order in with either Renesas or MegaChips. And all of a sudden BrainChip loses control. By this I mean, the Renesas M85 + Akida chip is nowhere on their product list, even though it's been taped out.

So the problem is really who will take the financial risk to manufacture the Renesas chip? I personally would like to see Brainchip take on some of that risk so that manufacturers know that they can go out and develop their products, write the software with the Microchip's platform, knowing that the arm+Akida chip will be there when they need it.

Iseki

 

[Damo4]

I agree it is a great achievement to work with the Microchips platform.

I think it means that manufacturers can go out and start writing software for their different products, that can go straight into the finished doorbell or Mercedes or whatever.

The only worry that I have ever had is that once they write their software for the product and they need, for example 10,000 arm Cortex M chips with an Akida variant inside to start manufacturing, they need to put an order in with either Renesas or MegaChips. And all of a sudden BrainChip loses control. By this I mean, the Renesas M85 + Akida chip is nowhere on their product list, even though it's been taped out.

So the problem is really who will take the financial risk to manufacture the Renesas chip? I personally would like to see Brainchip take on some of that risk so that manufacturers know that they can go out and develop their products, write the software with the Microchip's platform, knowing that the arm+Akida chip will be there when they need it.

Iseki

What have I actually just read....

 

[Fact Finder]

Hi All
As the cost of developing an academic theory or a product has become a topic and being a technophobe I thought I would investigate this question.

It turns out if you use the Edge Impulse platform it is likely to be free for most academic and individual users.

Who would have thought so struggling academics and developers no longer have to put up their hard earned to run an idea through Brainchip AKIDA or any other companies supported hardware.

I guess that’s why Brainchip dropped off including support with their Boards something which they promoted strongly.

Rather a clever move this Edge Impulse partnership. Who would have thought completely free access to experiment with Brainchip AKIDA technology.

“Edge Impulse​

Edge Impulse is the leading development platform for machine learning on edge devices, free for developers and trusted by enterprises. Founded in 2019 by Zach Shelby and Jan Jongboom, we are on a mission to enable developers to create the next generation of intelligent devices. We believe that machine learning can enable positive change in society, and we are dedicated to support applications for good.”

We're Updating Our Free Community Plan — Here Are the Details

On January 10, 2024 we updated the Edge Impulse Community Plan. Here is everything you need to know.

www.edgeimpulse.com

My opinion only DYOR
Fact Finder