AVZ Discussion 2022

[Samus]

Manono Lithium continuing to progress the north fits with what management have told us. What they haven’t told us is the expected timeline it will take to ‘prosecute these matters in the absence of a negotiated outcome with the DRC state’. The only clue we have came from the now silenced 9card who told us the FIRST hearing at the ICSID is in June 2025 which indicates we are looking at a long time yet before we get a decision which will most likely be ignored by the DRC government anyway. This is why I’m not a fan of hinted joy jumping in a few weeks especially to someone that says they’re suffering in the lead up to voting season. Reeks of champagne at xmas but I’m willing to give geo the benefit of the doubt for now like I said.

It’s pretty obvious to me that we’re going the distance and the DRC government are willing to play the long game legally in order to progress with China controlling at least the north. In the meantime the plan of our adversaries is to try and bankrupt us or topple Nigel in order to take control of the project for less than fair value. But our realisation of fair value is looking almost certainly like years of arbitration followed by more years of trying to recoup our award through seizing billions in assets from one of the poorest countries on earth whenever they happen to have something valuable in friendly jurisdictions. Like I’ve said repeatedly seeing any fair value return on our investment this side of 2030 will be a miracle imo

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View attachment 70746

I don't always like or agree with everything you say Carlos and I don't like this much either but it's about the only conclusion any sane person can make without resulting to hopium and fantasy.

We've only got two things to look forward to short term and I don't think either of them will have anybody jumping for joy.
Locke capital being finalised so that we at least don't go completely broke and the ruling that cominiereSA need to pay their accrued fines to date.
Other than that we're in for a long haul unless by some miracle DRC come to the table regarding some form of negotiated settlement. But the last we got from them was denial that they're even having any form of negotiations with management.

 

[Cumquat Cap]

And handfuls of cancelling meetings after flights all around the world, the disrespect the DRC government has shown at all times in unfathomable. Once given the word, we should all unleash on Felix and his family members to shame the hell out of them.

Felix has planned this for years hence why Cominiere have always felt so safe and nothing they’ve done has been logical. Absolute scum of the earth fat cunt

 

[Uglybob]

So they got all dressed up for a photo shoot and shovelled some dirt next to an old wonky bridge. Who's going to benefit from the better bridge? Looks like the locals can already access where they need to go (they don't own cars) but a mining company needs more than a foot bridge. Just like a mining company needs bulk electricity. It's a bit rich to claim they are doing it for the local people when all they are really doing helping is themselves. It's self serving, not for the locals. They will probably try charge the locals to use the bridge.

 

[wombat74]

And handfuls of cancelling meetings after flights all around the world, the disrespect the DRC government has shown at all times in unfathomable. Once given the word, we should all unleash on Felix and his family members to shame the hell out of them.

Felix has planned this for years hence why Cominiere have always felt so safe and nothing they’ve done has been logical. Absolute scum of the earth fat cunt

Didn't you read geo_au's post . Get your boing ! boing ! shoes on.

 

[Samus]

So they got all dressed up for a photo shoot and shovelled some dirt next to an old wonky bridge. Who's going to benefit from the better bridge? Looks like the locals can already access where they need to go (they don't own cars) but a mining company needs more than a foot bridge. Just like a mining company needs bulk electricity. It's a bit rich to claim they are doing it for the local people when all they are really doing helping is themselves. It's self serving, not for the locals. They will probably try charge the locals to use the bridge.

Not only that it's all stuff that AVZ were going to need to do anyway. Everything they're doing is designed to make it impossible for the government to weed Manono lithium out even after they lose every arbitration.

 

[Cumquat Cap]

Didn't you read geo_au's post . Get your boing ! boing ! shoes on.
View attachment 70751

Geo Probably referring to more drilling results from CDL, we’ve got a monster on our hands!

 

[Xerof]

A few weeks from now is when the Qtly activities report is normally published.....Oh,... wait........

 

[Dazmac66]

The DRC has cobalt mines generating massive profits which to my knowledge are all transacted in US dollars. Could this be a viable avenue to hit the DRC in the hip pocket? Why bother going to these courts if nothing comes of it. The Chinese can't be allowed to hover over third world economies like vultures just stealing the spoils of others hard work. It's just unfathomable that this will go unnoticed by the western superpowers. I am somewhat more confident of a result before 2030.

PS Never thought I would support him but Trump would have this sorted in a flash.

 

[Carlos Danger]

The DRC has cobalt mines generating massive profits which to my knowledge are all transacted in US dollars. Could this be a viable avenue to hit the DRC in the hip pocket? Why bother going to these courts if nothing comes of it. The Chinese can't be allowed to hover over third world economies like vultures just stealing the spoils of others hard work. It's just unfathomable that this will go unnoticed by the western superpowers. I am somewhat more confident of a result before 2030.

PS Never thought I would support him but Trump would have this sorted in a flash.

The ICSID won't enact punishments that impose on the rights of third parties. The DRC government is always the minority partner in their cobalt deals so extremely unlikely we will be able to pursue that revenue.

The Magnitsky Act is our best bet of seizing assets outside the involved parties to proceedings but that would only involve those directly involved in the corruption we have faced. And if any of those we potentially try to target move their assets into the new BRICS currency then we have no chance.

I think we will get the award before 2030. Average duration at ICSID is 5 years and we filed in 2023 so that puts us at around 2028 final decision. But add in appeals and the extremely high chance that the DRC government won't comply or will seek a deal to delay further then receiving payment is likely to be well beyond that.

 

[Dave Evans]

The ICSID won't enact punishments that impose on the rights of third parties. The DRC government is always the minority partner in their cobalt deals so extremely unlikely we will be able to pursue that revenue.

The Magnitsky Act is our best bet of seizing assets outside the involved parties to proceedings but that would only involve those directly involved in the corruption we have faced. And if any of those we potentially try to target move their assets into the new BRICS currency then we have no chance.

I think we will get the award before 2030. Average duration at ICSID is 5 years and we filed in 2023 so that puts us at around 2028 final decision. But add in appeals and the extremely high chance that the DRC government won't comply or will seek a deal to delay further then receiving payment is likely to be well beyond that.

As you have mentioned numerous times Carlos, we were fortunate to have @9cardomaha valuable intel. I recall him saying something along the lines of the ICSID being able to seize any royalties Zijin would pay to the DRC once they were in production, so I don’t see us having to wait until 2030 for a resolution.

After Cominiere illegally seizing our project and forming a JV with Zijin in the north, it would be true justice in seizing back money the DRC would receive in royalties.

As far as the actors plotting against us. They have started by posting the work being done on the hydro power station and a small local bridge. This followed on from bribing the local chief and trying to win over locals with a few trinkets. They haven’t shown any more recent work or drilling around our camp.

Zijin first bribed Cominiere’s BOD members and most of that money disappeared into their pockets. The proof is already there. Shareholder’s don’t need to let the bad actors run the narrative and post reactively when there is so much evidence we can post.

The project was illegally seized through an illegitimate and fraudulent action following Celestin Kibeya, Lisette Kabanga and David E’ngazi all taking bribes from Zigin and violating our FROR.

The IGF Report showed Cominiere’s BOD acted illegally and the ICC and ICSID have issued orders to pay us millions in penalties and not carry out any work on any part of what was PR13359 or the power station.

We have the recording of Kibeya taking the bribe, the proof in the IGF Report of how the money fraudulently disappeared and Zijin’s letter threatening Cominiere that if it didn’t get the north it wanted its bribe money back.

Zijin is now violating ICC and ICSID orders not to take any steps to commence work on our tenement, nor the power station, but they will claim it was Cominiere who acted illegally so of course Kibeya and the whole Cominiere BOD are being protected by Tshisekedi and the Minister of Mines. Eventually they will have to pay one way or another.

As you know Carlos, as a shareholder, I appreciate the effort you have put in to provide shareholders with legal and other information, and I agree with your sentiments in keeping posts genuine and not posting bullshit.

I think shareholders need to stick to the facts and not get caught up in the bullshit narrative the bad actors try and spin.

A lot of this information that shareholders can use is in these links

Cominiere’s Corruption

Cominiere’s Corruption Investors, mining companies, battery maker’s and EV manufacturer’s around the world know the story of AVZ Minerals and how DRC state miner Cominiere seized the Manono lithium project from Dathcom and sold it to Chinese Zijin Mining Follow the links below to see 1. The...

thestockexchange.com.au

Lisette Tshibwabwa Kabanga

31/07/2023 Lithium: the COMINIERE and the Congolese State paid US$1.6 million for the lobbying of Lisette Tshibwabwa Kabanga "Lisette Kabanga Tshibwabwa justified in particular the legality of lobbying in Congo" NEWSECONOMY Lithium: the COMINIERE and the Congolese State paid US$1.6 million...

thestockexchange.com.au

David E’ngazi $70 Million Fraud

19/04/2024 Lithium: the intriguing transformation of $ 70 million from Zijin Mining to an NGO As part of its partnership with La Comminière, a subsidiary of the Chinese mining Zijin paid an important contribution to a mysterious Congolese NGO, whose president is himself a public company...

thestockexchange.com.au

Mpiana Mwanga Hydro Electric Power Plant

01/06/2023 Mpiana Mwanga Hydro Electric Power Plant (HEPP) AVZ has through its 100% owned DRC based legal entity, AVZ Power SAU (AVZP), successfully negotiated and signed an MOU with the DRC government. This MOU now grants AVZP the right to begin full studies into the redundant and abandoned...

thestockexchange.com.au

Manono Lithium Continues To Violate ICC and ICSID Orders In The DRC

17/11/2023 https://announcements.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20231117/pdf/05xgd2s91x97y0.pdf 10/01/2024 Manono: The suspension of Manono Lithium's activities is being debated The Governor of the Province of Tanganyika suspends the career activities of the mining company ManonoLithium for an...

thestockexchange.com.au

THE AVZ MINERALS STORY

Since 2017 in the DRC, AVZ Minerals has spent over $140 million on Acquiring Equipment for Infrastructure, Soil Sampling, Field Mapping, Consulting, Drilling, Metallurgical Testing, Completing a FEED Study, Environmental Study and Impact Assessment Reports including Groundwater Management, a 160...

thestockexchange.com.au

 

[Carlos Danger]

As you have mentioned numerous times Carlos, we were fortunate to have @9cardomaha valuable intel. I recall him saying something along the lines of the ICSID being able to seize any royalties Zijin would pay to the DRC once they were in production, so I don’t see us having to wait until 2030 for a resolution.

After Cominiere illegally seizing our project and forming a JV with Zijin in the north, it would be true justice in seizing back money the DRC would receive in royalties.

As far as the actors plotting against us. They have started by posting the work being done on the hydro power station and a small local bridge. This followed on from bribing the local chief and trying to win over locals with a few trinkets. They haven’t shown any more recent work or drilling around our camp.

Zijin first bribed Cominiere’s BOD members and most of that money disappeared into their pockets. The proof is already there. Shareholder’s don’t need to let the bad actors run the narrative and post reactively when there is so much evidence we can post.

The project was illegally seized through an illegitimate and fraudulent action following Celestin Kibeya, Lisette Kabanga and David E’ngazi all taking bribes from Zigin and violating our FROR.

The IGF Report showed Cominiere’s BOD acted illegally and the ICC and ICSID have issued orders to pay us millions in penalties and not carry out any work on any part of what was PR13359 or the power station.

We have the recording of Kibeya taking the bribe, the proof in the IGF Report of how the money fraudulently disappeared and Zijin’s letter threatening Cominiere that if it didn’t get the north it wanted its bribe money back.

Zijin is now violating ICC and ICSID orders not to take any steps to commence work on our tenement, nor the power station, but they will claim it was Cominiere who acted illegally so of course Kibeya and the whole Cominiere BOD are being protected by Tshisekedi and the Minister of Mines. Eventually they will have to pay one way or another.

As you know Carlos, as a shareholder, I appreciate the effort you have put in to provide shareholders with legal and other information, and I agree with your sentiments in keeping posts genuine and not posting bullshit.

I think shareholders need to stick to the facts and not get caught up in the bullshit narrative the bad actors try and spin.

A lot of this information that shareholders can use is in these links

Cominiere’s Corruption

Cominiere’s Corruption Investors, mining companies, battery maker’s and EV manufacturer’s around the world know the story of AVZ Minerals and how DRC state miner Cominiere seized the Manono lithium project from Dathcom and sold it to Chinese Zijin Mining Follow the links below to see 1. The...

thestockexchange.com.au

Lisette Tshibwabwa Kabanga

31/07/2023 Lithium: the COMINIERE and the Congolese State paid US$1.6 million for the lobbying of Lisette Tshibwabwa Kabanga "Lisette Kabanga Tshibwabwa justified in particular the legality of lobbying in Congo" NEWSECONOMY Lithium: the COMINIERE and the Congolese State paid US$1.6 million...

thestockexchange.com.au

David E’ngazi $70 Million Fraud

19/04/2024 Lithium: the intriguing transformation of $ 70 million from Zijin Mining to an NGO As part of its partnership with La Comminière, a subsidiary of the Chinese mining Zijin paid an important contribution to a mysterious Congolese NGO, whose president is himself a public company...

thestockexchange.com.au

Mpiana Mwanga Hydro Electric Power Plant

01/06/2023 Mpiana Mwanga Hydro Electric Power Plant (HEPP) AVZ has through its 100% owned DRC based legal entity, AVZ Power SAU (AVZP), successfully negotiated and signed an MOU with the DRC government. This MOU now grants AVZP the right to begin full studies into the redundant and abandoned...

thestockexchange.com.au

Manono Lithium Continues To Violate ICC and ICSID Orders In The DRC

17/11/2023 https://announcements.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20231117/pdf/05xgd2s91x97y0.pdf 10/01/2024 Manono: The suspension of Manono Lithium's activities is being debated The Governor of the Province of Tanganyika suspends the career activities of the mining company ManonoLithium for an...

thestockexchange.com.au

THE AVZ MINERALS STORY

Since 2017 in the DRC, AVZ Minerals has spent over $140 million on Acquiring Equipment for Infrastructure, Soil Sampling, Field Mapping, Consulting, Drilling, Metallurgical Testing, Completing a FEED Study, Environmental Study and Impact Assessment Reports including Groundwater Management, a 160...

thestockexchange.com.au

I've said previously that Zijin actions and assets in usd are why DLA are trying to tie them into the case at the ICSID. But we still need to win the award first. Which isn't happening any time soon imo

 

[Dazmac66]

I guess the point is we may not have an award in the near future but what are the consequences of completely ignoring these international courts for the next 5 years? Zijin will have extracted half the spod from north in that time, Snakehead and Fat Boy will be living the high life in Belgium as will the lawyers currently working on the case at a glacial pace. Surely there are mechanisms in place to deal with recalcitrant signatories who violate the interim orders.

 

[Bonsoir]

I guess the point is we may not have an award in the near future but what are the consequences of completely ignoring these international courts for the next 5 years? Zijin will have extracted half the spod from north in that time, Snakehead and Fat Boy will be living the high life in Belgium as will the lawyers currently working on the case at a glacial pace. Surely there are mechanisms in place to deal with recalcitrant signatories who violate the interim orders.

I’m sure within the 20,000 share holders in Oz and around the world there would be some pretty nasty characters that will not let this corruption slide into the annals of history, if we lose this I’m betting there will be a mechanism of consequences for those recalcitrant signatories and their lackies in some form or another. Not from me as I’m not a violent person.

 

[BEISHA]

The DRC has cobalt mines generating massive profits which to my knowledge are all transacted in US dollars. Could this be a viable avenue to hit the DRC in the hip pocket? Why bother going to these courts if nothing comes of it. The Chinese can't be allowed to hover over third world economies like vultures just stealing the spoils of others hard work. It's just unfathomable that this will go unnoticed by the western superpowers. I am somewhat more confident of a result before 2030.

PS Never thought I would support him but Trump would have this sorted in a flash.

PS Never thought I would support him but Trump would have this sorted in a flash.

Like he sorted COVID and rocket man ?

Trump , Cominiere, Zijin, Felix have alot in common

 

[CHB]

I’m sure within the 20,000 share holders in Oz and around the world there would be some pretty nasty characters that will not let this corruption slide into the annals of history, if we lose this I’m betting there will be a mechanism of consequences for those recalcitrant signatories and their lackies in some form or another. Not from me as I’m not a violent person.

Highly doubt it. Just a fantasy.

 

[kulturica]

Manono Lithium continuing to progress the north fits with what management have told us. What they haven’t told us is the expected timeline it will take to ‘prosecute these matters in the absence of a negotiated outcome with the DRC state’. The only clue we have came from the now silenced 9card who told us the FIRST hearing at the ICSID is in June 2025 which indicates we are looking at a long time yet before we get a decision which will most likely be ignored by the DRC government anyway. This is why I’m not a fan of hinted joy jumping in a few weeks especially to someone that says they’re suffering in the lead up to voting season. Reeks of champagne at xmas but I’m willing to give geo the benefit of the doubt for now like I said.

It’s pretty obvious to me that we’re going the distance and the DRC government are willing to play the long game legally in order to progress with China controlling at least the north. In the meantime the plan of our adversaries is to try and bankrupt us or topple Nigel in order to take control of the project for less than fair value. But our realisation of fair value is looking almost certainly like years of arbitration followed by more years of trying to recoup our award through seizing billions in assets from one of the poorest countries on earth whenever they happen to have something valuable in friendly jurisdictions. Like I’ve said repeatedly seeing any fair value return on our investment this side of 2030 will be a miracle imo

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View attachment 70746

Hi Carlos, I appreciate your posts and your understanding of AVZ situation. I have a question. If you think that DRC will most likely ignore final ICSID decision, what is a reason behind their decision not to take ROCHE DURE, but only CDL ?

 

[BEISHA]

Hi All

I aint directing this post to anyone in particular, but i reckon the rag on @geo_au is a bit unfair.

I have done a few winks in the past, so not sure why i havnt received the treatment!

Yes realism is important, but in my opinion, one needs to retain hope that a favourable outcome is still possible, to not have hope, then one can really spiral out of control altogether...

It aint over till its over!!........just my opinion

There are a few things going on behind the scenes, confirmed to me by a number of sophs in the inner sanctum, i am not at liberty to say for many reasons and to be honest, i am still sceptical myself given all the rumours in the past didnt bear fruit , but i hold hope none the less and everyone should too.

Aside from that, personally i ask myself all the time, if we are truly fucked and our only hope is ICC / ISCID arbitration decisions which could take years to determine , then why hasnt DRC / COMINIERE given Zijin the green light to start construction on RD ?

What is the purpose of the lobito corridor initiative by the US ?

What is in it for them ?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/congo-wants-pivot-away-china-173648241.html?guccounter=1

Now thats a really interesting article if true...... ( oops, i winked again)

Now if one had hope, then one could surmise that the purported MOU could be encapsulated with all of the above.

Food for thought.

 

[BEISHA]

Hi Carlos, I appreciate your posts and your understanding of AVZ situation. I have a question. If you think that DRC will most likely ignore final ICSID decision, what is a reason behind their decision not to take ROCHE DURE, but only CDL ?

what is a reason behind their decision not to take ROCHE DURE, but only CDL ?

You beat me to the punch........

 

[wombat74]

Hi Carlos, I appreciate your posts and your understanding of AVZ situation. I have a question. If you think that DRC will most likely ignore final ICSID decision, what is a reason behind their decision not to take ROCHE DURE, but only CDL ?

Correct me if I'm wrong ,but have they not extended the CDL border to take part of Roche Dure ?

The Roche Dure numbers and area is known .AVZ has done all the work . Spent 10s of million of $$$. It's sitting there like a ripe peach ready to be picked . In the mean time the scumbags steal the North ,drill and build a mine . While this is going on the remaining part of Roche Dure is intentionally left stranded in the hope AVZ go bust and p1ss off . After which Zijin will swoop and steal all of Roche Dure as well . China wants all of it . Always has .imo

 

[BEISHA]

Correct me if I'm wrong ,but have they not extended the CDL border to take part of Roche Dure ?

The Roche Dure numbers and area is known .AVZ has done all the work . Spent 10s of million of $$$. It's sitting there like a ripe peach ready to be picked . In the mean time the scumbags steal the North ,drill and build a mine . While this is going on the remaining part of Roche Dure is intentionally left stranded in the hope AVZ go bust and p1ss off . After which Zijin will swoop and steal all of Roche Dure as well . China wants all of it . Always has .imo

fair call, lets hope not